Friday, June 10, 2005

What Now?

Last night Bolivia dodged a bullet but it came no closer whatsoever to addressing the fundamental issues that brought thousands into the streets and shut down the country – the call for re-nationalizing gas and oil; convening a constituent assembly to rewrite the Constitution, and deciding the fate of regional autonomy. Bolivia has a new President who will lead the process of deciding those issues and he is, quite fortunately, not the one who had all but pledged to start the process by sending out the army.

The first question is: What will the social movements who have mounted such fierce “street heat” do now? Evo Morales and MAS have signaled that they will give the government a truce of unknown duration to allow a dialogue on those issues with the Congress and new President. Other movements, most especially those in El Alto and the altiplano, have made it clear that they will continue to press on with their demands (on gas and a constituent assembly) and are no doubt in heavy discussions this morning about whether to call for a break in the heavy protests they have waged in the capital of La Paz.

We should know a good deal more by day’s end.

There is a proposal that I have seen, circulating among social movement leaders, mayors, and civic groups, which would constitute a concrete way forward. It would call for a “Super Election” in the next few months in which would include:

· Election of a new President and Vice-President

· Election of representatives to a Constituent Assembly empowered by the Congress and President to rewrite the Constitution

· A straight up or down, binding vote on renationalizing the gas and oil

· A vote on regional autonomy (in some unknown form)

In my view it is both a reasonable proposal and the only real route forward at this point. In the next few days watch for that proposal to surface with broad political support and then watch to see the reaction of the Congress and other political elites in the country who have so much power at stake.

58 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the updates, great blog!

A vote on regional autonomy (in some unknown form) - That is a strange request? Who wants this vote and why? Does this mean they want to break up the country? If so, wouldn't that start a civil war, similar to how the US civil war started?
---

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Jackie said...

Thanks so much for your updates - I have been online all last night and this morning searching for updates & worrying about which direction this situation would take. I very much appreciate your taking the time to keep us informed.

A few thoughts/questions for anyone out there....What is the likelyhood of this "super election" taking place? How long would it take to organize & convene such a huge project? And finally, how can the government ensure that all groups are on side with a binding referendum on the gas issue and would respect the result?

Continued thoughts and prayers with all Bolivians...

11:45 AM  
Anonymous Andrés Thomas Conteris said...

Jim... you and Marcela were phenomenal on www.democracynow.org this morning. And your kind comment at the beginning of the interview was gracious and your analysis, cogent as ever.

Fuerza! to you for bringing the Bolivia story to the rest of us and Corragio to the Bolivians and those in solidarity in the heart of the struggle.

Pa'lante!

12:08 PM  
Anonymous Interested observer said...

I am also appreciative of the reports on this blog. My son and his family live in Bolivia.

On the matter of the election demands - It seems to me that the most important demand will be for the constituent assembly. This will be the equivalent of the constitutional convention in the U.S. in 1789.

A consituent assembly, if controlled by forces allied with the indigenous movement, can re-write the constitution in such a way as to override any outcome of any other question considered by previous elections, including those on gas and regional autonomy.

Given the source of support for this demand, a constituent assembly in Bolivia would probably take a path similar to the one in Venezuala. In fact, the language which Morales has used, i.e. "the refounding of the nation" as well as the name of his group - MAS, have parallels to the Venezuelan experience.

12:12 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

Sorry for the repost here, but I just spent a ton of time writing this, so I' thought I'd put it where the discussion will actually continue...

Logan - that's exactly why I think the process is so important.

I know that the indians have been getting the shaft for years. We all want a better, more democratic, more free, more just Bolivia.

But the issue is, how do you get from here to there?

My argument all along is that the process DOES matter because in the end that is the only way to eventually stumble our way to a better future for everyone.

The rule of law is easy to criticise, because it sounds too much like "status quo". But it's not. All sides have to be held to account.

But the process DOES matter.

And rule of law is also easy to take for granted if you've had it. When you lose it, all hell breaks lose and it's good for no one.

And at this point, I simply don't believe that a better future is closer now, because of all of this, than it was before.

Too much hatred and fanning of the flames. Too much demogaogary.

The point has been made over and over (and stated in these terms I do believe) - why bother with the ballot box - let's just do what we want.

Of course Bolivian democracy isn't some platonic model of perfection and justice. It's a freaking mess - but a freaking mess that's been getting better.

A freaking mess that had an indigenous vice president, a surge of indigenous congressment, and had Evo no less, get 22% last round (which has played the major role in making him a player).

The process has been shifting. The question is - what is getting us closer to a peaceful and just Bolivia? Continuing to push that system to consolidate and expand those gains? Or push it flaming into the abyss?

The point is - does what Evo et al are doing, no matter how justifiable from an emotional standpoint (and I even have issues with that, but that's another discussion) is furthering Bolivia from a stable, democratic, and just society where all Bolivians, regardless of ethnic background have justice and a stake in a shared future?

I spent a short time in South Africa and person after person, both black and white, talked about how important Nelson Mandela was. And what they said was that while it was hard for them (the blacks) to hold down their bile and hatred (most justified) the leadership of Mandela made them realize that a just and bright future for SA had to include both blacks and whites and that acting out of hatred would only spiral the country down into violence.

The rule of law sounds like I'm supporting Vaca Diez or the like, but I'm not. The rule of law holds for everyone - camba or kolla, indigenous or white, rich or poor. That's what makes law so important. It's the social contract that keeps society on the rails. It is out of whack in many ways in Bolivia, and by no means are rich politicians who are corruptly lining their pockets following the rule of law.

But neither is Evo. And by throwing his lot into the destruction of the system rather than its lawful reformation he's pushing the country towards violence.

Or put another way, the evil of the wait it requires to slowly rooting out corruption and slowling dealing with inequity, etc. to me is a much smaller evil than tossing the whole democratic project in the garbage.

And if you don't think that's what's happening, take a guess what will happen if the next elections don't go Evo's way.

Where can there be reconciliation in a atmosphere where Mallku is calling for, begging for, civil war? Where the racial element has been played upon without end on both sides?

The whites and the elites and the middle class and all stripes in between are part of Bolivia, whether Evo likes it or not. Bolivia is no more Evo's country than it is Vaca Diez's.

My mother in law is a widow. She was a school teacher and principal until she retired. She's from Tarija, is on the whiter end of the racial spectrum. She's incredibly dedicated to helping the poor. She won the country's highest honer (Condor of the Andes) for her educational work. She lives on her teachers pension in a very modest home, just able to make ends meet. She has fought tooth and nail for justice and an end to corruption day in and day out for years.

Evo's message to her? Fuck off - you're too white, and besides you're from Tarija.

Evo is not a whit more Bolivian than she is.

It's not so cut and dried as Evo (and many here) like to see it - the poor vs. the rich, the indigenous vs. the whites.

As for nationalization - yes, people have gotten screwed out of silver and tin, etc.

But Bolivia would be no better off today if it was sitting on all on all of that silver. Unless of course, it sold it.

The gas HAS to be sold to be of any benefit. The only question is - how do you do it? Foreign companies HAVE to be involved - Bolivia simply doesnt' have the money or technology to pull it off.

Maybe Evo has a great plan, but the truth is that most of the protestors are not thinking about nuanced policy options for selling gas - they are thinking about "keeping gas for the Bolivians". That's not a productive or realistic way to develop your natural resource potential.

Is the current law the right way to go? I don't know. But I don't think Evo's current bombast about nationaliziation (which, by the way, woudl open Bolivia to endless lawsuits) is going to do it.

Finally, THANK YOU rcardenas for your kind words!

As for Mr. Quiroga - well, I think he'd be a fool to run. Without making a judgement on him as a candidate, I think he'd have a fair shot at winning. The problem for him is - why take the job?

Bolivian President, at this point, is just north of Police Chief of Bagdad in terms of jobs you don't want to take.

Bolivia has a real leadership gap right now, and I have no idea who fills the gap.....

12:22 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

12:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous asked:
>>>A vote on regional autonomy (in some unknown form) - That is a strange request? Who wants this vote and why? Does this mean they want to break up the country? If so, wouldn't that start a civil war, similar to how the US civil war started?<<<

To my understanding this referendum on autonomy is what especially the rich oligarchy of eastern provinces (where the oil and gas is) are demanding; and presence of US troops in neighbouring Paraguay make these demands very worrysome. On the other side to my knowledge Felipe Quispo aka El Maliku, the Aymara leader, has in the past demanded an independent Aymara nation.

IMHO it would be better if autonomy/secession related issues at this point were left for the Constitutional Assembly to decide.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous Logan Foster said...

Better left to a Constituent Assembly where Santa Cruz, Beni,and Tarija will be outnumbered?

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

concerning the elections, are there any plans in the works to assure that whoever wins is allowed to govern without physical threats? Obviously the 2002 elections were discarded by the left. What has changed in the meantime? And would they be 5 year appointments even if the constitutinal assembly changed the rules for electioning?

Having referendums are great but like the manifestations, they may become addicting. If the left can't get what they want they can manifest, work everyone in a frenzy and force referendums. Not very efficient.

1:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Logan, there is a proposal out there that would give small departments significant representation in the assembly. If that goes through then problems start again because the western cities will be underrepresented. Obviously no solutin is perfect but that is a battle yet to be fought.

1:17 PM  
Anonymous Richard C. said...

Excellent blog! I'll certainly be linking through - just found you via a link on dKos. I'm not sure I completely agree with your characterization of Evo, but I'm willing to wait to be convinced.

Morales has become the Bush administration's "boogeyman of choice" in Bolivia - which means I immediately give the edge to Evo. ;)

1:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

==To my understanding this referendum on autonomy is what especially the rich oligarchy of eastern provinces (where the oil and gas is) are demanding; and presence of US troops in neighbouring Paraguay make these demands very worrysome.==

I read somewhere that this is what the US is pushing for, so that they can keep control of the gov't and not lose it like they did in Velenzuela. I think US needs to stop messing with other countries internal affairs, that is why so many countries hate us. Carter was trying to fix things, but he didn't last.

I foresee most of Latin America leaning heavily left in the comming years, including Mexico. I'm not sure how the US will respond to such a loss of power. If they send the military in Bolivia, I guess they are going to try to fight to keep their influence. I think the US is also headed in this direction, similar to how it happened in the 1920's. The right will keep control until a depression or high inflation hit, and then they will begin to lose control fast. In the end, with the modernization of society, it takes less and less people to provide the necessities of life, so how do other people make a living?

I wish I didn't have to pay taxes to fight these wars!

1:57 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

You know, I think sometimes we attribute way to much to the US. Sure the US is behind many things, and its influence is heavy.

But as much as it may pain some Americans to imagine this, we are not at the center of all of the worlds issues, conflicts, and problems.

Sometimes, we're just irrelevant.

2:00 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

And before someone pitches a fit, I'm not saying that the US is irrelevant in this, just that maybe its role isn't as important as sometimes we make it out to be (especially, for some odd reason, Americans).

2:19 PM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...

Andrew T seems to be the only person making some sense here.

Re-nationalization is just about the stupidest thing out there since Marx's labor theory of value. Its not every day you get Brasilian, Argentinian, Spanish, and English companies dropping 3.7 billion dollars to get the gas flowing. So now you go on and change the rules and threaten to kick them out. Thats collective madness.

i. it is going to kill investment. You need continuous investment to keep the stuff flowing. ii. it is going to tick off Brasil, Spain, Argentina, et al. which all have semi-leftoid governments - normally people who would tolerate an Evo-led country.
iii. It will not lead to increased revenue to the state, cut off investment and put it all in hands of bureaucrats. We end up with the mess in Venezuela, where they are operating at half-capacity and corruption is nasty.
iv. Statism DOES NOT WORK, it has not worked in Bolivia the last 70 years - starting with the first nationalizations (Gas and Tin in the 30's, Gulf's Oil holdings in the 60's). Bolivia has done this repeatedly and has screwed it up every time. Corruption, corruption, corruption.

2:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

==And before someone pitches a fit, I'm not saying that the US is irrelevant in this, just that maybe its role isn't as important as sometimes we make it out to be (especially, for some odd reason, Americans).==

Then again, maybe it is and some just choose not to see the truth, but the truth can only be stiffled for so long. If you want to understand how the US expands its imperial goals, read Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. Research the facts stated and see if they are true, then you will see that the world is not always black and white. And our leaders are not always as innocent as they make themselves appear. Or don't and continue to believe what you hope to be true.

In any case, the presence of US troops in Paraguay should be a signal to you that the Bolivian gov't is heavily influenced by the US!

2:36 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Andrew T. re-posted from another comment thread, so I will re-post a response:


Let's be clear about what "nationalization" means and does not mean. Bolivians know they need to sell gas to make money from it. They even know they need outside help in extracting and processing it. But they want to do this on their own terms, through a transparent process, and enjoy a significant share of the proceeds.
This is why the IMF, the U.S., Goni, and transnationals share the responsibility in this whole mess.
From this very blog:
This afternoon I asked Carmen Peredo – a key leader of the irrigators’ union and major figure in the call for nationalization – what nationalization really means. What do they actually want?...
...Carmen says that what nationalization means, in this instance, is really about cutting out the middleman. If Repsol, British Petroleum, Shell or any of the others want Bolivian gas Bolivia would still happily sell it to them, but not at bargain prices set by those companies’ own subsidiaries. What the movements are demanding is that Bolivia set the sale price and that Bolivia take the big profits that the companies are now reaping through the scam of being both buyer and seller.
But where is Bolivia going to get the investment capital to develop their gas fields and the other infrastructure needed? Carmen says that there are all kinds of potential suitors, from Japan, China and elsewhere, who would be interested in getting their hands in on a deal to develop South America’s second largest gas reserves. Bolivia’s social movements, she says, are willing to deal with international players but from a position of controlling their own gas not having negotiated it away behind closed doors.
Say I walk over to your house every morning, knock on the door, and when you answer, I poke you in the eye, take your newspaper, and hand you a nickel. I do it every day for, say, a month. Then one day I come, knock on the door, and you come tearing out of the bushes with a frying pan and chase me out of the yard. Does it then make sense for the neighbors across the street, who've been watching all of this all month, to have heated arguments focusing on the bush you trampled and how the hell you expect to get your daily nickel now?

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

boli-nica,

Yes the Bolivians do need financial help, but not at the expense of becomming indentured servants (really just a step away from legalized slavery).

Yes, it will probably kill foreign investment, but when you owe more than you borrowed, you are forced to sell your resources to foreign companies, and your standard of living declines for over 20 years, you may be willing to take that chance. I would be willing to take that chance, then even if I was strugling to survive, at least I would know that it wasn't because I was being taken advantage of by foreigners.

Yes, there is corruption in theigh gov't, but show me one that doesn't have corruption!

I'm not sure what statism means, but I do know that nationalizing a countries resources is not so bad. Alaskans get a divident every year from oil royalties. I live in a city that has the power and water company owned by the cities citizens. Canada has nationalized health care. Even the US has social security, medicare, medicaid, US postal service (although some are trying to destroy these programs).

Extreme capitalism and extreme socialism do not work, but perhaps a combination of the two would work? Nationalize the industries that are necessities of life, and let the free market take care of the rest.

You must chose, Democracy or Capitalism, in the end, they can not co-exist, one will overcome the other. Capitalism doesn't even care if you are a Democracy, just look at China!

2:50 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

I don't think this is the space to get into a debate on how involved the US might or might not be (which is just about all pointless speculation right now anwya) but my only point was that we often over-attribute the US's role.

I remember before I went to Bolivia, I had this sinister picture of how the US dominated Latin America and created poverty and injustice.

At the heart of it, there was a lot of arrogance to that. A lot of arrogance to thinking the US is so all fire important in everything, all the time.

People are perfectly able to beat the crap out of each other, love each other, hate each other, swindle each other, and build solidarity together even if (gasp) the US isn't involved.

After living in Bolivia, I came to see things differently than what I thought before.

Sure, the US is mixed up in a lot of stuff. But when my neighborhood OTB president stole the community funds , when my wife caught the gardener she hired double weighting the seed he sold us with hidden rocks, when neighbors were throwing garbage out the back of their house down into the pristine natural area around our neighborhood, when my university students refused to be held to a high standard of study because that was "just being a gringo" I couldn't help thinking - you know, maybe when a camba says they hate a kolla or Tarija wants independence, or when indigenous people pull ties off people because that's too white or when another corrupt politician takes a kick back for service rendered it has nothing at all to do with the United States.

Call me crazy.

2:52 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

Now, heavy negotiations take place. I'm glad to see that the proposal circulating includes both the Constituent Assembly and the Autonomy referendum, as it shows that people are willing to recognized the existence of competing demands. More confusing is how autonomy can be anything but a constitutional issue - it seems it would make more sense to discuss it at the assembly. But I understand why neither side is willing to conflate the two right now.

One good move on the part of the movements (or studid move on the part of politicians?) is to talk about Goni's fate. It is a bargaining chip. Once it's on the table, the movements can show their willingness to compromise by giving in on it, but only once they've gotten their more important demands met.

One question: in everything I've read, Rodriguez has been defined as one thing: not Vaca Diez. He is really an unknown entity, as far as I can see. I'll be watching for signs of what direction he might steer things between now and elections. Anxiously.

2:56 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

Thanks for the kind words,Boli Nica.

Everyone here would love a great, happy solution that makes everyone well off.

I happen to agree with Boli Nica that nationalization isn't going to do it.

And beyond that, I continue to question the methods that have been used to get to this point and what it portends for Bolivia's future.

As for the protestors themselves, I question, based on my past converstations with people, just how clear everyone is about what nationalization means.

My experience is that people have a pretty basic knee jerk reaction - Goni (or whoever) is giving our gas to the gringos. That's about as deep as the discourse seems to go in many cases.

2:57 PM  
Blogger Dan said...

My italics didn't work in quoting this blog above. I don't want to stick Jim with the blame for my awful eye-poking, frying pan story. Just for the record, his quote begins with "This afternoon..." and ends with "...behind closed doors."

3:00 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

Re your nickel example... I could just as easily have the following example. If I find oil under my house today that's worth 10billion dollars, and Exxon offers me 1 million to extract it, are they are aren't they screwing me?

Of course they are. And it is, nonetheless, to my advantage. Because without exxon, the oil would sit under my house and I'd be 1 million dollars poorer.

But again, we can debate ad infinitum the best way, mechanism, and theory to export gas such that it helps Bolivia and Bolivians.

The real issue at hand right now is "how do you come to that decision"?

And I'll say it once again - Evo et als way of doing it is putting the country's future in jeopardy.

3:01 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Andrew,

this reminds me of the saying "the devil is in the details."

Part of the policy is the belief that gov't offials will take kickbacks, if you don't, then you are assinated.

I wouldn't be surprised if assination attempts are already in the works for many of these opposition leaders, but if the will of the people is for change, then that is what will happen. How strong the peoples resolve is has yet to be seen, but it appears to be strong

3:06 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

As for the assebmly, how in gods name is that going to play out without ripping the country to shreds?!

3:08 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

Isn't that just a bit alarmist? If assasination is in the cards, why didn't somebody knock of Evo and Mallku a few years ago?

I'm not saying it's impossible, I just think its sort of irresponsible to start talking about planned hits on politicians unless you have something more to go on than your belief about how the world works.

The devil is, truly, in the details. So let's hammer them out. Like semi-rational adults rather than as radicalized social blocs playing brinksmanship with the nation.

3:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The devil is, truly, in the details. So let's hammer them out. Like semi-rational adults rather than as radicalized social blocs playing brinksmanship with the nation."

I believe that is what is happening right now. So far, the only people I've heard that have died in this conflict, is a miner killed by the Bolivian military.

To me at least, protest and demonstrations, seem a lot more rational than murder!

3:19 PM  
Anonymous interested observer said...

I have been impressed with the lack of violence and the amount of restraint that has been shown so far.

The army could have intervened on behalf of Vaca Diez, but didn't.

A few hundred years ago there was an indian uprising against the spanish in the then colony of peru. There was a bloodbath. This uprising has been more effective and less bloody.

Movements like the one in Bolivia have been successful in bringing about change in other parts of the world - Civil Rights Movement in the U.S.; Ghandi in India. So I am not as concerned as some others about the wisdom of the social movement in Bolivia.

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Gar Lipow said...

I'm not well informed on this subject (just listened to you on Amy, reviewed your blog and a few articles on Znet)- so hope you won't mind if I ask questions rather than offering opinions:

1) What is wrong with the current electoral system in Boliva? What stops the indigenous 2/3rds from winning a majority in the regular elections? I'm assuming there is some sort of rotten district thing going on (maybe in a really extreme form like the U.S. Senate) or something of that sort?

What kind of changes would a consituent assmebly make to change whatever these are?

What process would be a fair one for the election of such an assembly?

If the answers to these questions are well known and you just want to point me to a link rather than taking time to repeat well known facts, that would be fine.

Thanks

4:35 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

"What is wrong with the current electoral system in Boliva? What stops the indigenous 2/3rds from winning a majority in the regular elections? I'm assuming there is some sort of rotten district thing going on (maybe in a really extreme form like the U.S. Senate) or something of that sort?"

I don't think there's anything rotten in that sense.

I'm sure others will disagree, but I think the problem with your question is that you make and assumption about what the 2/3 indigenous people want. In a lot of ways, the indigenous want similar things. But in a lot of ways they are also very different.

Quechuas and Aymaras don't speak the same language, use the same clothing, or have the same culture. They have some historical distrust.

Not to mention the indigenous people of other parts of the country.

Then you have that very 2/3 number - who is (and is not) indigenous in Bolivia? It's a very imprecise thing. Does a predominantly indigenously blooded person from La Paz the city have the same interests as a indigenous person from the altiplano? What about a relatively white but dirt poor farmer from Tarija?

And who gets what from voting what way? There is traditionally a ton of cronyism in Bolivian politics and handing out of lucrative posts for the winning party.

How do those alliances stack up? What incentive does each person have to try and guess the correct bandwagon and jump on before it leaves the station?

In other words, the 2/3 block you mention doesn't vote in Evo or similar because 2/3 of Bolivians (to this point) have not chosen to vote for him, and because to think of them as some homogeneous block of indigenous people is simply an oversimplification of who they are and what they want.

I still firmly believe that - as disasterous as I think it would be - if the vote comes down pro-Evo or pro-Mallku, that's who will assume power.

Evidence Evo himself, who has gone from marginal rabble-rouser to central political figure, mostly on the strength of his strong showing in the last election and the prestige and real power that it brought him.

If you think indigenous candidates are out of the loop you forget that Evo (if I'm correct on this) has been in the position of deal breaker or king maker in many ocassions since his electoral ascendency.

(Also, the elections never produce a president, only members of congress who then start horse trading for who actually becomes pres.)

Elections, btw, are nationwide and based on numerical totals and not an electoral college, I do believe.

Bottom line - the simple black and whtie vision of the indigenous vs. the ruling elite is a radical simplification.

4:47 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:52 PM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

One more clarification - I'm not saying the Bolvian system is good. It's more like sausage making - you don't want to know what goes into the final product.

I just think the ugliness is not based on any particular plot that systematically disenfranchises voters.

It's more just plain ugly politics, crossed interests, and mixed-motives all around the table.

There's nothing like Bolivian politics to make you think the US system of two parties is a godsend.

4:54 PM  
Anonymous Paul said...

Dan said: "Bolivia would still happily sell [gas] to [multinationals], but not at bargain prices set by those companies’ own subsidiaries."

Is this really true? Didn't Bolivia tie the price of the gas it sells into the Brazil-Bolivia pipeline to the world price of oil? Are the multinationals really "setting their own prices"? Why do Brazilians complain that the price of Bolivian natural gas is too high?


Gar Lipow asked: "What is wrong with the current electoral system in Bolivia?"

The problem seems to be that people friendly to the U.S. government, international lending institutions, and European standards of living keep getting elected. This may be because many people are afraid of what might happen if anti-capitalists ruled.


Gar Lipow asked: "What kind of changes would a constituent assembly make to change whatever these are?"

Not a peep has been heard. One possibility would be to guarantee representation of many pre-selected worker and indigenous groups in any new congress, similarly to how the constituent assembly itself would be constructed. This is mere speculation on my part.


"What process would be a fair one for the election of such an assembly?"

Each represented group would determine their own manner of selecting a representative. Presumably the number of representatives would be based on the size of their membership. I would think there could be severe double counting. I'm not sure that the miners and indigenous communities will accept any presence at all of the "ruling elite" or the landowning class. But perhaps their numbers are too small to matter. Again, I'm speculating quite a bit here.


Andrew T. said "Quechuas and Aymaras don't speak the same language, use the same clothing, or have the same culture."

The fact that they don't speak the same language is obviously significant. What other signficant cultural differences do they have? Their political leaders commonly lump all of the indigenous peoples together, as they all are supposedly being "excluded" by the descendents of Europeans. Perhaps Quechuas and Aymarans are underrepresented in government because Quechuans and Aymarans are unwilling to give much power to any one individual. Or is their culture as heterogenous as European culture, so that no Quechuan or Aymaran could well represent any significant fraction of Quechuans or Aymarans? Perhaps language, education, background, interest, finances, and culture all combine to play a role in keeping indigenous people out of office. But if the feelings within the two groups are homogenous, then I would think these factors could be overcome.

6:35 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Thanks very much for your blogging. I've linked this over on Phoenix Rising, a minor blog that tries and usually fails to keep up with the outrages.

Again, thanks for providing the news our worthless media won't.

8:25 PM  
Blogger Charles said...

Um, sorry. I'm not sure anyone cares, but I put in the incorrect link to my own blog in the post above. The correct link is Mercury Rising

I'm not sure that I even want to know what the blog I actually linked to is about.

8:31 PM  
Anonymous Mary said...

A view from afar, in California...where I am safe and sated with abundance on a peaceful evening, watching the Bolivian people in the agony and glory of historic change. I know little of the issues with which you passionately struggle, but I do hope and pray for a government truly of the people, for the people, by the people and the new day it could bring. Those of you on the ground in Bolivia, if you can bring order and freedom for your people, if you can birth this new government in peace, the world will watch in awe. For now, I watch anxiously and wish for you to have strength, wisdom and enormous patience in the endless work ahead. Gaia, Allah, God be with you.

1:23 AM  
Anonymous debra said...

all my hopes and prayers for the bolivian people in the difficult path they have before them. viva la revolution! if the multi-nationals weren't so damned greedy the people would have stayed at home tending to daily life as they have century after century. the cycle repeats itself and again we all have the opportunity to make the giant leap up to a truly more egalitarian world. we missed it in the 20's and 30's and missed it again in the 60's, maybe this time we will be luckier. the times they are a changin'....hopefully

1:07 PM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...

Yes the Bolivians do need financial help, but not at the expense of becomming indentured servants (really just a step away from legalized slavery).

Yes, it will probably kill foreign investment, but when you owe more than you borrowed, you are forced to sell your resources to foreign companies, and your standard of living declines for over 20 years, you may be willing to take that chance. I would be willing to take that chance, then even if I was strugling to survive, at least I would know that it wasn't because I was being taken advantage of by foreigners.

Yes, there is corruption in theigh gov't, but show me one that doesn't have corruption!

I'm not sure what statism means, but I do know that nationalizing a countries resources is not so bad.



Dang! Do you really believe that??


Nationalization means the State takes it over. A general rule of thumb is that states in Latin America (and everywhere else in the world) run things very, very, poorly. Political hacks run the State. The Aymara/MAS/Evo/Quispe et al, movement is full of really, really, stupid Marxist hacks at the top, and its base is composed of some of the very poorest folks in the continent.

Marxists, who by nature argue about Marxism all day, suck at running
anything practical. Che did a great job of ruining Cuba's economy -- and he was a medical doctor.

Now throw in typical Bolivian caudillismo, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Bolivia's original deal with the oil and gas companies did not suddenly appear due to the IMF as Shultz claims. This was something that was developed well over a decade by Bolivians. It was a good deal, and would have brought a lot of tax revenue to Bolivia, and created jobs.

Now its largely gone through sheer stupidity.

2:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANDREW T. has made some cogent arguments about the "rule of law" etc.

I'd like to find out more about the Bolivian political system.

Does anyone know some good sources that might have information on the following:

1)How is the current electoral process set up? What is the structure of the government-- ie. legislative/executive/judicial etc.

2) How have the various indigenous groups mentioned voted? What complaints to they have about the electoral process? How have the non-indigenous middle and working classes voted (or whatever the correct term.

3) Why is there a demand to rewrite the Constitution? What are complaints?

4) The new President, Rodriquez stated: "I am convinced that one of my tasks will be to begin an electoral process to renew and continue building a democratic system that is more just."

QUESTION: What isn't just about the current system? There must be some glaring problems if the head of the Supreme Court makes such a blunt statement.

---------
From the "Democracy Now" show mentioned earlier:

****
AMY GOODMAN: I want to read to you a press release from GQR, Greenberg, Quinlan, Rosner Research, Inc. It says, “GQR, with James Carville, Shrum-Devine-Donilon and GCS-UK helps elect Bolivian president Gonzales Sanchez de Lozada.” It says, “The former Bolivian president, Gonzales Sanchez de la Sada, pulled off a remarkable electoral comeback by finishing first in Bolivia's presidential elections on June 30.” Of course, this was a few years ago.

TOM HAYDEN: ’96.

AMY GOODMAN: “Sanchez de Lozada, who served as president from 1993 to 1997, trailed by more than ten points in the eleven candidate field with less than one month to go in the campaign, according to public opinion polls. Greenberg, Quinlan, Rosner Research served as Sanchez de Lozada’s consultant on polling and strategy, helped develop Sanchez de Lozada’s winning campaign message, which stressed solving Bolivia's economic crisis by creating public works and jobs.” And then it goes to talk about the victory. It says, “GQR worked for Sanchez de Lozada, or ‘Goni’ as he is called, as part of the GCS consortium of campaign consultants. GCS includes political strategist James Carville from the media firm Shrum-Devine-Donilon,” and it goes on from there. Can you talk about – I mean, we are talking about the Clinton campaign team. What were they doing in Bolivia?

TOM HAYDEN: Well, you explained it precisely. The Clinton campaign team branched out, so to speak. They were with the more corporate candidates in Argentina, in Mexico, as well, but in Bolivia, they took particular credit for the election of this fellow, who is known infamously as “Goni,” who was part of that white elite, and he was run out of the country in 2003, after his forces had killed at least 100 people in the streets. I heard about it. I was sitting at Harvard's Institute of Politics, and his friends called up from Miami, and asked if he could, you know, get an appointment there, and somebody did a quick check and said, “Well, he just killed 100 people this month. Let's put that off.” And I don't know what happened with it, but the story is true that the Clinton group not only represented Goni and were proud of it -- I talked to Stan Greenberg last year, and he said he still has a lot of respect for him -- but also that same campaign firm represents British Petroleum."
******

That reminds me of what happened in Russia, with Yeltsin. He was "democratically elected" -- relying on a well-funded US managed fear campaign. He went on with his terrible privatization (aka "piratization") programs which led to such disastrous results (killing millions and crashing the economy). Although Yeltsin and gang were elected, very few people in Russia today consider his government to have been a "democratic" one.

I only mention this situation to support the point made previously that democracy demands much more than simply elections.

2:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ANDREW T. has made some cogent arguments about the "rule of law" etc.

I'd like to find out more about the Bolivian political system.

Does anyone know some good sources that might have information on the following:

1)How is the current electoral process set up? What is the structure of the government-- ie. legislative/executive/judicial etc.

2) How have the various indigenous groups mentioned voted? What complaints to they have about the electoral process? How have the non-indigenous middle and working classes voted (or whatever the correct term.

3) Why is there a demand to rewrite the Constitution? What are complaints?

4) The new President, Rodriquez stated: "I am convinced that one of my tasks will be to begin an electoral process to renew and continue building a democratic system that is more just."

QUESTION: What isn't just about the current system? There must be some glaring problems if the head of the Supreme Court makes such a blunt statement.

---------
From the "Democracy Now" show mentioned earlier:

****
AMY GOODMAN: I want to read to you a press release from GQR, Greenberg, Quinlan, Rosner Research, Inc. It says, “GQR, with James Carville, Shrum-Devine-Donilon and GCS-UK helps elect Bolivian president Gonzales Sanchez de Lozada.” It says, “The former Bolivian president, Gonzales Sanchez de la Sada, pulled off a remarkable electoral comeback by finishing first in Bolivia's presidential elections on June 30.” Of course, this was a few years ago.

TOM HAYDEN: ’96.

AMY GOODMAN: “Sanchez de Lozada, who served as president from 1993 to 1997, trailed by more than ten points in the eleven candidate field with less than one month to go in the campaign, according to public opinion polls. Greenberg, Quinlan, Rosner Research served as Sanchez de Lozada’s consultant on polling and strategy, helped develop Sanchez de Lozada’s winning campaign message, which stressed solving Bolivia's economic crisis by creating public works and jobs.” And then it goes to talk about the victory. It says, “GQR worked for Sanchez de Lozada, or ‘Goni’ as he is called, as part of the GCS consortium of campaign consultants. GCS includes political strategist James Carville from the media firm Shrum-Devine-Donilon,” and it goes on from there. Can you talk about – I mean, we are talking about the Clinton campaign team. What were they doing in Bolivia?

TOM HAYDEN: Well, you explained it precisely. The Clinton campaign team branched out, so to speak. They were with the more corporate candidates in Argentina, in Mexico, as well, but in Bolivia, they took particular credit for the election of this fellow, who is known infamously as “Goni,” who was part of that white elite, and he was run out of the country in 2003, after his forces had killed at least 100 people in the streets. I heard about it. I was sitting at Harvard's Institute of Politics, and his friends called up from Miami, and asked if he could, you know, get an appointment there, and somebody did a quick check and said, “Well, he just killed 100 people this month. Let's put that off.” And I don't know what happened with it, but the story is true that the Clinton group not only represented Goni and were proud of it -- I talked to Stan Greenberg last year, and he said he still has a lot of respect for him -- but also that same campaign firm represents British Petroleum."
******

That reminds me of what happened in Russia, with Yeltsin. He was "democratically elected" -- relying on a well-funded US managed fear campaign. He went on with his terrible privatization (aka "piratization") programs which led to such disastrous results (killing millions and crashing the economy). Although Yeltsin and gang were elected, very few people in Russia today consider his government to have been a "democratic" one.

I only mention this situation to support the point made previously that democracy demands much more than simply elections.

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