Sunday, August 28, 2005

Bolivian Polling Games

This morning’s Cochabamba daily, Los Tiempos, chose as its big lead article almost a full page of coverage of a new public opinion poll showing Jorge “Tuto” Quiroga with a commanding lead of 10% over Evo Morales [Quiroga 27%, Doria Medina 20%, Morales 17%]. Of course, one minor problem with the poll is that it completely excludes voters outside of Bolivia’s cities. To the paper’s credit, it did, at least, prominently disclose that fact.

Now, regardless of what one thinks of these candidates, polling is polling. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist or a political scientist to understand that a poll like this is, well, just plain goofy. Such silliness. Imagine if you had seen this headline a year ago in the US: A new poll today showed Senator John Kerry with a commanding ten point lead over President George Bush. The poll was taken among voters in downtown Berkeley.

Reliable, scientific polling is based on representative sampling. Why on earth would any credible political scientist do a Bolivian poll and pretend that results from the city alone have validity whatsoever? Why would a respectable newspaper like Los Tiempos use the poll as its lead story?

It may be that the paper is just hungry for some election news to draw attention to its front page. More conspiratorially, maybe the paper’s owners are trying to help Quiroga develop an image of momentum.

In either case, polls like this are only likely to come back and haunt Quiroga later. What happens in October when someone actually produces a poll that includes both the cities and the rural areas (where Morales’ base and support is much, much stronger)? Suddenly the numbers are going to look wildly different and, like it or not, Los Tiempos is going to get stuck with a story showing a Morales surge, when in fact all that really happened is they used a representative sampling.

If polling like this is part of some Quiroga strategy, it may turnout to be as smart as the move by the US Ambassador in 2002, when he warned voters not to support Morales and the MAS and damn near propelled him to first place.

Such is the wild world of Bolivian politics readers.

42 Comments:

Anonymous japaza said...

For newbies to this blog, go here first:

http://www.publiushpundits.com/?p=1308

and/or here

http://bolicarreras.blogspot.com/2005/07/
ngos-shenanigans-what-is-behind-bolivia_06.html

6:17 AM  
Anonymous Democarp said...

Jeez, Japaza, I knew there were leeches in the Beni, but until I began visiting this site and encountering your inciteful posts, I never knew they had internet access.

4:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hate to sink to their level, but it might be interesting to analyze the scientific representativity of Japaza and Boli-Carrera's sources of Bolivia information. I wonder how many of Boli's relatives live outside of the three major cities (my guess is none).

What neighborhoods they live in, I could probably guess that one too...

4:22 PM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...

Anonymous said...

I hate to sink to their level, but it might be interesting to analyze the scientific representativity of Japaza and Boli-Carrera's sources of Bolivia information. I wonder how many of Boli's relatives live outside of the three major cities (my guess is none).

What neighborhoods they live in, I could probably guess that one too...


Dang -- by limiting me to the big 3, you are leaving out Tarija, Sucre, Potosi and Oruru

Do you include El Alto as a separate city?

Do rural haciendas and vacation homes count?

Jeez, so where

5:01 PM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...

Anonymous said...

I hate to sink to their level, but it might be interesting to analyze the scientific representativity of Japaza and Boli-Carrera's sources of Bolivia information. I wonder how many of Boli's relatives live outside of the three major cities (my guess is none).

What neighborhoods they live in, I could probably guess that one too...


Dang -- by limiting me to the big 3, you are leaving out Tarija, Sucre, Potosi and Oruru

Do you include El Alto as a separate city?

Do rural haciendas and vacation homes count?

Jeez, so where

5:03 PM  
Anonymous japaza said...

What about the scientific representativity of Schultz's sources?
In any case, Jim does live in Cochabamba, earn in US dollars and live in an affluent neighbourhood.

You might that makes his postings even more admirable, but, truth be said, he will be back in the US as soon as things get a bit hairy. Don't we just love that?

As for democarp: If you had something interesting to say as opposed to what you think are extremely ingenous insults, would be good for a change.

In any case, it is not surprising for leftists to visit this blog and defend the author, after all, we all know that still have to discover the wonders of thinking.

5:10 AM  
Anonymous Javier F. said...

Leftist...Rightist, Republicans, democrats...lost on focus...I guess there is only room for using brain power to stick to one side and fight every debate making sure their own side wins...for me, that is waisting time.

For me that is one of peoples greates mistake...choosing a school of thought and defend it 'til death. Free thinkers don't have sides....what for? what good does it do to you?

Freedom of speach also means freedom to filter out noice and use valid data to analize.

You guys should learn from soccer...doesn't matter if your left or right is great...can't score a goal without the head.

And the goal is not to prove if left or right is good....for me, the goal is analize bolivian issues...for example, recently there has been some smoke coming out for corruption in UMSA, according to many, thanks to the autonomy they have...debate this...rather than...Bush is bad, he is doing bad thing in Irak, he will apply the same bad behavior in Bolivia. What Bush does in Irak is a concern for the entire world...shouldn't affect Bolivian affairs significantly.

Keep up debating...remember how to play soccer though.

Saludos, Javier

11:24 AM  
Blogger zona boy said...

They should really poll Congress. That's who's going to decide it all anyway. Congress, or as my Tio Abel calls it "la casa del pedo".

How's that tio?

Because sobrino mio they all stand up and say "pedo la palabra".

1:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

japaza (bolinica) wrote:

As for democarp: If you had something interesting to say as opposed to what you think are extremely ingenous insults, would be good for a change.

That should pretty much wipe out any doubt on the fact that ignorance is a great (and easy to offend) evil. Right japaza? ;-)

7:25 PM  
Anonymous Ah, nomedigas said...

Yes, Boli. By limiting you to three cities, I was OBVIOUSLY leaving out the other 6 department capitals and other intermediate cities. DUH!!

Other than showcasing your idiocy once again, you didn't really finish the thought so I assume I was right??

7:27 PM  
Blogger Darrell said...

Instead of arguing about Chavez, Bolivia should embrace him.

In an aticle by Juan Gonzales, New York Daily News, August 28, he talks about a Chavez initiative called Petrocaribe. This offers oil to Caribbean contries at lower prices than we hear of as the "world oil price". We have all probably heard of Chavez selling oil more cheaply to Cuba and getting doctors to work in Venezuela in return. Gonzalez reports a deal with Patterson of Jamaica to sell oil to that country at $40 a barrel, and the Dominican Republic is interested in the same kind of deal.

Venezuela has a state owned oil company, PDVSA. I don't know if this company accounts for all of Venezuela's oil production. I don't think it does, but it seems to be an example of a very successful state owned oil company. This is just the model it sounds like most Bolivians want to follow. PDVSA itself could be a source of expertise that Bolivia could use to develope its oil on its own terms. A pro-Chavez leader in Bolivia's presidency could make this possible. This could be the real boon to the country from its natural resources that Bolivians are looking for.

I think Evo could run on this, make it his strategy of how to make Bolivia prosper for all and say it, and I think he'd win.

7:53 PM  
Blogger The Democracy Center said...

Dear Readers,

As you know, I usually don’t weigh in on the comments section of the Blog but I want to say that I am dismayed by the fact that so much of the exchange here has devolved into name-calling.

In the months since The Democracy Center began this Blog, the comments from our readers have proven to be a great source of analysis, debate and information. For example, I am grateful to Paul V. for his link to an article a couple of weeks ago, one I would have missed otherwise, in which a senior Pentagon official traveling with Secretary Rumsfeld in Paraguay elaborated on the administration’s charges regarding Cuban and Venezuelan involvement here in Bolivia. That was important material.

I also appreciate the diversity of opinion expressed in the comments. No one, myself included, has a complete handle on truth and having one’s analysis challenged and enlarged is always useful. I would never want people with different opinions to drop out of this Blog. However, the back and forth labeling, distracts from all this.

It seems that one source of this is the resentment on the part of some Bolivians, living both here and in the US, that a gringo is living in their country and publishing commentary about it. I am familiar with such resentment. For years in California I worked with the immigrant rights movement and there were plenty of Californians who thought that immigrants had no right to speak up about the land to which they had moved. So it goes I suppose.

To those who harbor such resentment I can only say that I have lived in Bolivia for eight years, I have three Bolivian children (each adopted), and I have tried to contribute to this adopted country of mine. For three years my wife and I ran an orphanage here as volunteers and at great cost. Despite assertions otherwise, we do not live as kings here. We do not live in a rich neighborhood, but one of the mixed neighborhoods along the hillside where large houses mix with adobe shacks. Ours is in the middle. We don’t own a car, a home, a washing machine, or a TV (much to the distress of our teenagers). We try to live humbly (I still like washing my Levis in the sink out back).

As for my reporting and writing on Bolivia, readers who have taken time to read our book on the IMF or our coverage of the Cochabamba water revolt will note the shear volume of careful research we have invested in projects like these. At the moment, for example, we are in the midst of a mammoth number-crunching exercise to actually compare the respective experiences with water service, public and private, in Cochabamba and La Paz/El Alto. Be assured, reviewing stacks of original source documents and interviewing people like Carlos Mesa and IMF representatives to get the story right takes time and effort, more, I might add, than ranting accusations on a Blog comments page.

If any reader ever finds something we have said that is factually inaccurate, please post it here with the appropriate citations. We can all stand scrutiny and correction. But lets deal in facts, documented facts. If you differ with our analysis of those facts, post that as well. That is genuine debate.

As for those who think that a Blog is an opportunity for labeling and ranting in the hope of finding an audience, I say just ignore them. Let’s keep the comments section here as a forum for debate, not the kind of talk one expects to hear in a junior high locker room.

Thank you all for reading,

Jim Shultz

8:31 AM  
Anonymous Javier F. said...

As for those who think that a Blog is an opportunity for labeling and ranting in the hope of finding an audience, I say just ignore them. Let’s keep the comments section here as a forum for debate, …”

Completely, totally agree with you, Jim.

No need to know too much about a person's …race, sex, religion, social status, residence, etc, etc…all these variables the only thing they do is help for the rest to start pre-judging.

I don’t even care to know if I have left or right inclinations…but I can certainly give my opinions on issues:

I think is wrong the aggression on Evo Morales in Santa Cruz (ref: El Deber). I also think is wrong for a “Federacion de Campesinos de La Paz Tupac Katari” to call for “justicia comunitaria” to those that help or work with traditional parties (MNR, ADN, etc). Needless to say, also wrong to learn that in Chapare “zona de Morales” they don’t allow any other political party to run a campaign. (ref: Los Tiempos).

So, why do people make these decisions? Why do I bring this up?

Well, for me, these people are doing things more based on passion and emotions rather than rationale….quite similar to some bloggers here, with good intentions, good analysis…but full of school of thought passion.

Saludos, Javier

3:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Citizen of Norway calls for people-power in Bolivia!

I am in the process of learning. I study spanish and history at the moment.
I find that Latin-American people are amazingly strong of heart!!
We say we have democracy in the west, but I don't believe we the right formula..
What is happening in Bolivia at a point where the people can take control over their future is vital. Don't let your resources of the future fall into hands of the elite in Bolivia or from other contries. Let the resources be like the land for the farmer - to be harvested every year!

Have faith in the people's power and unite!

Good luck with real democracy!


In Solidarity

Miguel Emilio D. Steinsland
Norway

6:19 AM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...


Darrell said...

Instead of arguing about Chavez, Bolivia should embrace him.

In an aticle by Juan Gonzales, New York Daily News, August 28, he talks about a Chavez initiative called Petrocaribe. This offers oil to Caribbean contries at lower prices than we hear of as the "world oil price". We have all probably heard of Chavez selling oil more cheaply to Cuba and getting doctors to work in Venezuela in return. Gonzalez reports a deal with Patterson of Jamaica to sell oil to that country at $40 a barrel, and the Dominican Republic is interested in the same kind of deal.


1. Petrocaribe is in trouble because of conditions that Chavez attaches to the deal.

2. The Chavez to Castro deal is a gift of almost a billion bucks worth of oil a year, that should be going to Venezuelan coffers. It more than meets Cuba's meager needs (no cars). Instead most of it is probably resold by Castro for hard currency. This deal was NEVER ratified by ANY legislature, there was little issue raised in the media, it was signed directly at the top. Had this been a contract with a private company - everyone left, right and center would have said it was theft.

, Venezuela has a state owned oil company, PDVSA. I don't know if this company accounts for all of Venezuela's oil production. I don't think it does, but it seems to be an example of a very successful state owned oil company. This is just the model it sounds like most Bolivians want to follow. PDVSA itself could be a source of expertise that Bolivia could use to develope its oil on its own terms. A pro-Chavez leader in Bolivia's presidency could make this possible. This could be the real boon to the country from its natural resources that Bolivians are looking for.


YOU ARE SO WAY OFF!!! If anything PVDSA is a model of WHY NOT TO NATIONALIZE!

PDVSA had done ok. prior to Chavez, but corruption was rampant - many gov't officials became multi-millionaires. But, at least the Venezuelan govt, over time invested in its people, and created a corps of very proficient technical and management types, by sending them abroad.

Chavez fired thousands of them, replaced them with political hacks. The place is being run into the ground, production can not even match OPEC quotas, so they have to sub that out to foreign companies. High oil prices sustain the whole thing.

Corruption if anything is worse, there is an estimated 20 million bucks in oil reveneues a day, that are off the books, and no one can account for them.
Chavez has bought out opposition leaders and the rich, by giving them "juicy" commision sales
contracts, they act as middlemen for oil deals and collect millions.

Chavez cronies in the company are scamming like crazy. Folks are buying real estate in Miami like crazy. A son of one top PVDSA official crashed a 225,000 dollar Lamborghini in Miami.

Allegedly this corruption extends to other branches of the gov't. Looks like a bunch of high Venezuelan officials got caught in a DEA investigation of bank accounts. I will bet these funds do not come from drugs, but from oil.

2:07 PM  
Blogger Darrell said...

Boli-Nica, I was hoping I could get some feedback, and thanks for not calling me names.

I'll have to reread and think about some of the things you pointed out, before I can generate a senseable response. Corruption is something that has to be always struggled against, everywhere; certainly here in the states too.

Peace.

4:06 PM  
Anonymous ah, nomedigas said...

I apologize for my ad hominem attack against Boli. I think that in our hyper-mediated world of instant global communications, perception is for better or worse the guiding factor in action and inaction.

For example, perceptions of "country-risk" influence loan and trade decisions, perceptions of "rogue" leadership lead to embargos and military invasions, whether justified or not.

In this light, I find it very important to analyze and consider both the origins and validity of perceptions, in this case, about Bolivia. To judge a persons ideas or capacity, you need know nothing about their race, gender,age, etc. However, it is a fallacy to believe that we do not live in a world with socioeconomic class divisions drawn largely along racial lines. I wish I had made this point in a less direct and antagonistic way.

In response to Javier's question, why?, I don't understand the aggressions against Evo or preemptive warnings against traditional political parties either. I have to say I would rather expect the traditional parties campaigning in these areas to be a waste of time, but it should be allowed.

What Bolivia needs on all sides is the ability to listen; too bad that the EGTK did not have the same inspiration, objective conditions, or what have you to produce this:

http://narconews.com/Issue38/
article1416.html


And this is the end of my rant.

5:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the Norwegian dude (Miguel Emilio D. Steinsland):

Please stay in Norway. We do not need more leftists in Bolivia; be aware of the damage you folks are doing to this country through your NGO´s (which finance narco-terrorists such as Evo Morales).

Peace.

7:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

quoting anonymous ¨Please stay in Norway. We do not need more leftists in Bolivia; be aware of the damage you folks are doing to this country through your NGO´s (which finance narco-terrorists such as Evo Morales).¨

Ok, are you serious? the damage ÿou folks¨are doing to the country? What about what Bolivians are doing to Bolivians? Everything you might think of as bad that is happening in this country isnt exclusively due to one or more foreign influences. And I wont even start getting into the debate about Evo Morales being a narco-terrorist. jaa. This debate has no basis.

9:23 AM  
Blogger Toussant, El Exiguamente Impertinente said...

Greetings

Well this poll craze was started by former president and present Bolivian law convict Gonzalo Sanchez de Lozada. He along with his staff made statistics and polls his most sacred reference and electoral weapon, and you know why it works well? Because regardless how much of a "decent" or "scientific" poll it is it'll have a certain major impact on voters for bolivians don't wanna vote for a loser (Samuel Doria Media or Evo Morales, but Tuto... our big winner), they are then again playing with common people's psychis.

As a matter of fact Evo Morales will eventually lead the official voting recounts for countryside have always been MNR feud, since 1952 Revolution that is, but since MNR is almost gone MAS will be able to capitalize such votes.

Anyway I don't trust this papers and media coverage no moore and indeed , a la Eddy Vedder, plan to take a rifle and go out to the wilderness as a a guerrilla fighter against government if Tuto Quiroga is eventually elected, so We'll se.

You may wanna check my blog as well for a deep analysis of this subject, if you liked my comment or maybe not, that's up to you. it's in spanish so ...

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