Tuesday, August 09, 2005

A Comment on Comments

Dear Readers:

As regular visitors to this Blog know (we receive an average of 1000 visitors per day, triple that during times when Bolivia is in the news), a couple of months ago we added a new feature, opening the Blog up for comments by readers. For the most part this comments section is being used by the same half dozen people, as a sort of a daily exchange between them on Bolivia. Some of the comments provide new information; some mainly just express strong opinions. Once in a while they go after me personally.

As I have noted before here, I do keep an eye on the comments section from time to time but I really don’t have time to cover it all that closely, or to respond to what is said there. If I devoted my time to that I wouldn’t have any left over for my real work. That said, I welcome all comments people have to share, friendly, hostile or otherwise. The moment that any of us start to think that we have an exclusive handle on the truth and can’t learn from what other people have to say is the moment we slip into arrogance, and politics these days already has that in ample supply.

So comment away. Free speech is free speech.

Jim Shultz
The Democracy Center

15 Comments:

Anonymous japaza said...

For newbies to this blog, go here first:

http://www.publiushpundits.com/?p=1308

and/or here

http://bolicarreras.blogspot.com/2005/07/
ngos-shenanigans-what-is-behind-bolivia_06.html

6:17 AM  
Blogger Andrew T. said...

I'm going to climb back on my new hobby horse here a minute. The problems in Bolivia are primarily social, not political. Marginalization, injustice, an unfair economic playing field. I don't believe that the majority of these problems have much to do with what we spend our time talking about.

Racism, disunity, lack of civic spirit, lack of social cohesion, corruption at ALL levels, weak judicial system, a population that expects top-down solutions - these are the fundamental Bolivian problems from which all the others flow.

Evo's plan isn't going to solve that, and neither is Tuto's.

As far as the classic debate about free markets and big business, etc. Free markets and capitalism (when properly constrained) not only work, but are the fairest system that we've yet invented.

The main problem with "big business" in Bolivia is that there isn't enough of it.

But all of our political/economic debates (and the subsequent policy changes in Bolivia) are so much pissing in the wind unless those other, deeper problems are some how solved.

10:40 AM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...

Andrew, the problem here is that the folks we are arguing with, are stuck in a purely "anti" attitude. They are anti-globalization, anti-market, anti-trade, as a rule. So long as anything remotely resembling free enterprise is defeated they are happy.

Look at how they support nationalization of the gas industry in the name of "people having control of their resources" and "opposing the Washington consensus." Repeating worn-out slogans like a mantra, does not make them true through repetition. Once you get to the facts, the reality is much more complicated than some feel-good garbage.

Problem is that this garbage, when properly delivered strikes a chord with many Bolivians' fears, prejudices, and resentments. It is much harder to sell the public an idea that foreign investment is needed to properly develop the gas industry, than it is to tell them that they need to claim whats theirs, and stop the theft of their resources.

11:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fact that Mr. Boli-Nascar agrees so readily with you should be enough of a warning, Andrew, but here is some I hope constructive thought.

"The problems in Bolivia are primarily social, not political. Marginalization, injustice, an unfair economic playing field."

1. The unfair justice system is a direct result of politically motivated appointments and economically motivated corruption. Judges are unfair because they have sectarian loyalties or they have been paid off. Yes, you can look at this as a social problem of 'loose-morals' or what have you, but besides bordering dangerously on a prejudiced/racist view of Bolivian integrity, this stil does not separate the problem from clear political-economic sources.

2. Marginalization results from an unfair economic playing field, which results from a pre-existing unfair socioeconomic system which is allowed to endure by POLITICAL decision. It is no aberration that the SOCIAL movements which have thrown the nation into upheaveal have gained power from general disgust and rejection of ECONOMIC policies. Quick example: indentured

"Racism, disunity, lack of civic spirit, lack of social cohesion, corruption at ALL levels, weak judicial system, a population that expects top-down solutions - these are the fundamental Bolivian problems from which all the others flow."

Agreed, but let me highlight some points, and at the end of my rant I will propose the one problem you have neglected to mention:

1. Corruption swallowed up the lion's share of loans made to Bolivia during the recent spout of dictatorships. It has also eaten up pension funds and other social safety nets in recent years. Evo has promised to prosecute those responsible and attempt to recover some money, something which the traditional parties never did, and never will do if they return under the Tuto umbrella.

2. The twenty years of 'democracy' have allowed us to witness the most outrageous campaign promises from traditional party candidates: Goni's 500,000 jobs springing to mind. While he may not have a comprehensive plan, Evo is not running on the back of unrealizable promises. MAS is a party which rose from the grassroots, like em or not, and while they do not have immediate answers to all of Bolivia's problems, any one who truly supports democracy must see that the answers will come from the bottom. Examples: water policy in Cochabamba, coca policy.

3. While Evo is struggling to maintain legitimacy by the middle class in order to create a socially cohesive left coalition, the traditional parties are simply campaigning on image once again, and will change nothing in terms of the economic and political policies which have so obviously brought Bolivia's social cohesion to the brink of utter disintegration.

"Free markets and capitalism (when properly constrained) not only work, but are the fairest system that we've yet invented."

I think we've invented much fairer systems, but we're clearly not going to agree on that count. The interesting question is what you consider 'properly constrained'.

Maybe things like a water utility being taken to task for charging outrageous prices for service pre-dating its 'acquisition of the market'?

Or oil companies who got a sweet deal-unconstitutional ownership of known reserves at a friendly 'new reserve' tax discount, transportation infrastructure, dismantlement of local competition- being called on tax evasion, then being forced to pay a reasonable amount of taxes?

Or the government not signing a trade agreement which will allow foreign companies to sue it when pesky environmental regulations get in the way of their profits?

I think all of these are or would be reasonable constraints. As far as pissing in the wind, I think that is a bad idea at this time. The winds are turning down South, and we just might be getting closer to solving those deeper problems.

Unfortunately, the solutions are inseparable from those shallow debates you and I enjoy, and I hope to some degree I have helped you see this. Take, for example, the democratic revolution in Venezuela.

Hugo Chavez is a radical, anti-imperialist, Evo Morales lover, democratically elected president who supports: free enterprise! foreign investment! trade agreements! globalization!

You see Andrew, and Boli, it is not a question of worn out slogans, it is simply a matter of means and ends. If the ends are justice, participation and equality, the means must be FAIR free trade agreements, socially and environmentally accountable foreign investment, globalization of solidarity, labor mobility, education, minimum wages, AND of course, capital. The simple problem is that all these conditions and as Andrew says, proper constraints, are bad for business. Big, international business, that is.

4:03 PM  
Blogger Boli-Nica said...


You see Andrew, and Boli, it is not a question of worn out slogans, it is simply a matter of means and ends. If the ends are justice, participation and equality, the means must be FAIR free trade agreements, socially and environmentally accountable foreign investment, globalization of solidarity, labor mobility, education, minimum wages, AND of course, capital. The simple problem is that all these conditions and as Andrew says, proper constraints, are bad for business. Big, international business, that is.



The global movement of capital and goods is the result of hundreds of billions of individual decisions and not the result of decisions made by committee or individuals.

A country can theoretically put a "brake" on some of these forces by protectionism or other legislation. But in the end all you end up doing is distorting the local supply/demand curve, leaving people even more unprepared for when the inevitable tidal wave comes in. The more you interfere with the market, the worse your own situation becomes in the long run.

The best you can really do, is to try to take the 'edge' off of, shocks and adjustments. But to even do that, you need to have at least a semblance of a free-market system, which can produce the revenues needed to have such programs.

In Bolivia, all that has been done is to set back the only productive business in the country by five years.

4:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The global movement of capital and goods is the result of hundreds of billions of individual decisions and not the result of decisions made by committee or individuals.

" just 500 corporations now control two-thirds of world trade"
http://www.globalworkplace.org/?lid=74

* the top three billionaires have assets greater than the combined GNP of the 600 million people who live in the world's 48 least developed countries

* the income gap between the richest and poorest fifth of the world's population was 74 to 1 in 1997, up from 30 to 1 in 1960?

* 20% of the world's people living in the highest income countries control 86% of world wealth, while the poorest 20% only control 1%

http://www.globalworkplace.org/?lid=74


I would say that the global movement of capital is actually very much the result of decisions made by a reduced number of committees and individuals. The billions of individuals you speak of are affected by, but have very little say over these capital movements.

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