Tuesday, January 10, 2006

How it Looks to Bolivia's New Vice President

On Sunday, Bolivia's Vice-President elect, Alvaro Garcia Linera, was in our offices for a meeting with Bolivian social movement leaders. Just a few months ago he was here with many of the same people, debating the pros and cons of joining the MAS ticket. He pledged then that if he ran and won he would be back to talk again. Sunday was his first step in keeping that promise.

Movement leaders and the new V.P. had a wide-ranging conversation about gas and oil, land issues, education and health reform, and other topics that will be on the new government's agenda. Garcia Linera also offered a detailed and interesting analysis of how he sees the state of Bolivian politics and the plans of the MAS government. Here are some highlights:

The Shift of Political Power in Bolivia is Still in Motion

"We still don't know the significance of December 18th," he said. "What are its possibilities? What are its limits?" In the run up to the election Garcia Linera talked about Bolivia being at the point of "a historic standoff", in which the emerging powers in the country – indigenous communities, social movements, etc. – has achieved power equal to the established powers in the Bolivian elite, transnational corporations, and others who wield so much clout here. The election, Garcia Linera argues, gave the emerging movements one more instrument of power, the presidency, but that political power in Bolivia remains seriously fragmented, despite the election results.

The legislative branch, the judiciary, the business community, the military, the police, social movements, and others, he observed, are also key bases of political power, none of them under MAS control. He noted that the struggle for shifting the balance of power in Bolivia still continues.

Gas and Oil: Playing Skillful Chess

The incoming Vice-President reiterated MAS' campaign commitment to recover national control of Bolivia's gas and oil, privatized into the hands of foreign corporations over the past decade and a half. "What you should know is that in Evo and in me and in many of our Congress people you have people who are dedicated to the people of Bolivia, not to the oil companies, not to the United States or to Cuba."

He then added, "But now we have a responsibility to look at the whole picture. We have to look at all the effects of the actions we take, on funding, on compensation…" He described the path ahead on nationalization to be like a chessboard, in which the government needs to make every move based on the careful anticipation of every implication that can result. He also noted that the battle to get control over the sales side of Bolivia's gas and oil industry will be just as important as regaining control of the reserves in the ground.
His message was clear. This isn't about MAS watering down its position but, rather, acting in a clear and strategic way. Watch for MAS to deal with different oil companies very differently.

Constituent Assembly: Full Power

Commenting on the other big issue dominating Bolivia's political landscape, the V.P.-to-be also reiterated the MAS campaign pledge to quickly convene a constituent assembly to rewrite the country's constitution. He pledged that the assembly would be "sovereign" meaning that it would have full political powers. In Bolivia this means being able to take up the gas issue and any other that the assembly sees fit. He said that MAS would initiative a three-way dialogue to set up the plans for the historic process, involving social movements, the government, and the nation's business leaders.

47 Comments:

Anonymous eduardo said...

"What you should know is that in Evo and in me and in many of our Congress people you have people who are dedicated to the people of Bolivia, not to the oil companies, not to the United States or to Cuba."

The last influence mentioned, Cuba, was very important. I hope AGL's absence from the delegation trip to Cuba before New Year's was a sign of disagreement with what goes on in Cuba. Bolivia must demonstrate that it will work with every country which wants to work with us (Venezuela and Cuba), but not be afraid of criticizing those elements on those countries that I hope Bolivia never comes close to. I find AGL to be the voice of reason.

5:46 PM  
Blogger federico said...

I find AGL to be the voice of reason.

I agree with you, but maybe this is only cultural. After all, MAS, including Evo and many of the non-intellectual socialists- have been in Congress for three years, and held up Mesa's weak government despite the provocations of mindless pseudo revolutionary trotskyists such as Olivera. The results of the new Hydrocarbon Law, which would have been much weaker without MAS, are being touted in all the papers now, the lowest deficit in years.

I wonder how AGL and Evo plan to handle the Mutun issue, since the civicos in Santa Cruz are bent on setting their own agenda and will use this as the perfect propaganda ploy if their wishes are not met. Is there a plan to quickly modify the Mining Code Law before the propaganda machine kicks in?

11:44 PM  
Blogger federico said...

I meant Jaime Solares, of the Central Workers Union, not Olivera.

11:48 PM  
Blogger Javier F. said...

"This isn't about MAS watering down its position but, rather, acting in a clear and strategic way" ????

Clearly IT IS, he is already watering down MAS emotional positions.

We all know Evo's tendency to flip-flop. MAS is full of emotional way rather than "strategic way".

I see Evo being more of a master on adaptation rather than rationalization.

For example, he claims not to wear formal suit with a tie because he doesn't want to look like a k'ara working for the transnationals. But it seems we is adapting slowly, thus in China he apologized "No estoy acostumbrado al protocolo".

On another note, emotionally MAS said..."we will get back what belongs to Bolivia"...ejem, "We are doing NATIONALIZATION, but this is NOT CONFISCATION".

After this demagogy, Evo went around to "guarantee" Repsol, Total, Petrobas security by saying ..."others" are going to suffer the weight of the new Bolivian government....I believe he ment the ones that are operating against the "law".

You see, this kind of talk can be believed by Bolivians, but the international leaders will do what they know what do do best...smile, and silently say "yeah right!".

AGL knows this apparently, and in todays post I can see that he is preparing slowly the social movements to face reality.

Bolivia will harvest what they planted.

Saludos, Javier F.

1:24 AM  
Anonymous carlos said...

"Watch for MAS to deal with different oil companies very differently."

Can anyone discuss how Morales might do this? In the last week he has been to the home country of every oil company offering intentionally inconclusive statements about his plans. Are there some oil companies that are willing to accept less favorable contracts than others?
Petrobras for example- maybe they are so invested already in Bolivian gas - that they will accept any contract because they cannot affort to pull out completely and lose their investments. Or maybe since Petrobras is the largest investor in Bolivian gas, Morales will be lighter on them than on other companies... I dont know which it is. Has anyone read anything about this?

4:57 AM  
Anonymous http://b2bolivia.blogspot.com said...

I think it's clear that Evo will deal with different corporations in a case-by-case framework, depending of how sweet they talk to him. Is anyone surprised that Evo will not touch any of PETROBRAS investments(which are larger, and more monopolistic in nature than many of those from Europe or the US)? Or that he gave the "go ahead" for the Mutun bidding -even without reforms to the mining code- after some sweet talking in China... will anyone be surprised when Shandong Luneng gets the project? Remember how Evo and his crowd supported the "solidarity price" for natural gas exports to Argentina, costing Bolivia $US millions in revenue. Evito, "todo un patriota de dientes para afuera".

Jonathan

11:53 AM  
Blogger federico said...

There was an interesting (spanish) article in Bolpress yesterday, about the split between Brazil's orthodox financial operatives and the more leftist, progressive foreign policy wing.

http://bolpress.com/opinion.php?Cod=2006011019

It seems that for now Marco Aurelio Garcia's panamericanism is winning over the corporate profit driven logic of Petrobras, meaning that Brazil would accept the modification of its contracts to include full Bolivian ownership of gas and Venezuela style joint-venture contracts, pay any proven back taxes owed, and possibly return a share of the oil refineries privatized under Tuto a few years ago.

The position taken by Lula will be crucial and I like to think that Chavez is using his influence to help Bolivia rather than further short term interests of PDVSA. If the above plays out, the other foreign oil/gas companies will be trying to sweet talk investors into not dumping their shares, because they have repeatedly broken Bolivian and international law, and with Brazil, Venezuela, Iran and China possibly stepping in, they will soon lose out completely on the business.

Several of these same companies have already signed 40-60% style contracts with Venezuela anyway, they will come around.

12:41 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Concerning the constituent assembly to re-write the constitution, what are some of the major areas of focus? Why (specifically) does it need to be re-written? I, for one, think that Article 52, parliamentary immunity, is a guarantee of corruption. What other areas are of concern?

3:00 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Well, Eduardo, I wouldn't expect Mr. Morales' government to criticize anything about Cuba too soon. That's understandable though; while he won a majority in the election, 54% does not provide enough backing to make too many waves. And I may be coming around slightly to the views more comonly expressed here in that I agree the vote was more disatisfaction with the status quo, not necessarily supreme confidence in Evo. He can criticize the US, but he really couldn't do that with Cuba and Venezuela, even if he wanted to.
He has to tread not quite as lightly with the oil companies. He may get someone to come in to replace companies that get kicked out or leave, but that's a significant delay in revenues and he needs to quickly demonstrate improvement. the constitutional congress is easy... do it. It will take years to actually decide anything. As far as not being accustomed to protocol,... That can be interpretted either as, "I didn't care enough to actually dress up for you" or "my advisors are so inept that they let me go out this way." It really is a minor point, but Chavez, Castro, Chinese President Hu Jintao, they all know when to wear a tie...
Oh, on my constitution question: how about getting rid of article 27 where everyone is equally obliged to pay taxes... EVERYONE!

5:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Norman, Eduardo,

with regards to your comments on possible critisism towards some Cuban policies by part of the new Bolivian leadership, I'd like to notify you of this article:

http://www.unionradio.com.ve/Noticias/Noticia.aspx?noticiaid=156650

I haven't got time at the moment to translate but the most important part of what Garcia Linera says is that Bolivia cannot imitate the political processes of Venezuela, much less the one of Cuba, and that in those countries the leadership is based on orders given from above... He also says that civil society has been destroyed in Cuba.

Hopefully the left shift in Latin-America and integration will offer Cuba a possibility to improve the parts of its' political system that are not supportable and further develop the parts of the system that are already worthy of praise...

7:02 PM  
Blogger Paisano de Elite said...

Jim the Praetorian.

I knew after reading below interesting article about the conformance of the MAS elite; better know as Linera’s Praetorian Guard, that Jimmy boy will have an urge to rube his status in everybody’s faces:

http://166.114.28.115/20060109/politica/politica01.htm

Weak up Jim, you are one more of the fools being used to deprive Bolivian citizens of their freedoms in the near future; of course, there is also a strong possibility that you are very much awake and part of the conspiracy.

By the way, the Coordinadora del Agua alone doesn’t sum up enough for you to say that Lineras was getting together with the Social Movement Leaders of Cochabamba, us you wanted to imply; he was there to hear what Olivera wanted as a booty of war for his participation in the destroying of the Bolivian structure before the election, so he doesn’t have that little rat biting MAS’s tail before Evo’s possession;

It is true en effect that Bolivia’s political power is still fragmented, Lineras’ Praetorian Guard is working really hard on it, since that is the way the MAS want it to be until before the Constituent Assembly. During the Constituent, using Chavez expertise, MAS will take away from us all our Democratic Freedoms, and it will be all legal. After the Constituent, with the help of Fidel’s secret service police, MAS will eliminate all its opposition with Machiavelic precision, especially so called civil movement leaders that do not vow to the new dictator. The same way that happened in Cuba and Venezuela.

Of course, in order to do that, more money than the one that Chavez is willing to lend us is needed, so of course that now, MAS rhetoric towards the Oil and Gas enterprises is changing, and are now talking about, let me quote this from your post quoting Lineras; “But now we have a responsibility to look at the whole picture. We have to look at all the effects of the actions we take, on funding, on compensation…". Wow, if I did not know better I could thing I was hearing somebody from PODEMOS during the election campaign. MAS elite is so narrow minded that their leaders are telling them. Hey! We lied to you, during the election campaign we where not being responsible, we were not looking the whole picture, so we lie not to loose your votes. But know we will see the whole picture and we must scare you with the possibility of indemnifications, compensations, not having a market to sell our gas, not being able to get investors in the country so you can have gas in your house, more of less like not having water in your house if you are in Cochabamba o El Alto. The plan is simple, keep everybody confused until the Constituent and then take the Country for the next fifty years; I guess that is what the Democracy Center thinks it means when a leader is being dedicated to his Country.

But I have news for you my praetorian foe, Bolivians are not use to follow the rules of the land, no matter if it comes from a Constituent Assembly or from Simon Bolivar’s grave; there will be strong opposition at having our Human Rights and Democracy Freedoms taken away form us. We will counterattack in all fronts at any given time, no matter how many Cuban and Venezuelan spies you will have, us you once put it, resistance will not be futile.

7:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the commenter above, just for the sake of curiosity.

Am I correct in assuming that:

a) You did not vote for Morales, and:

b) You are kind of bummed out about your candidate getting historically thumped by the voters?

Also, for reference, where is the planet Praetoria exactly and do they serve good silpancho there?

Thanks.

9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

“Constituent Assembly: Full Power” ?

Jim reports that VP elect Alvaro Garcia Linera, “reiterated the MAS campaign pledge to quickly convene a constituent assembly …”, also “pledged that the assembly would be “sovereign”” and finally “…that MAS would initiative (sic) a three-way dialog to set up plans for the historic process, involving social movements, the government, and the nation’s business leaders”.

I wonder, is he taking for granted that MNR, UN and PODEMOS will support uncontested all parliamentary initiatives proposed by MAS?

Some numbers to keep in mind:

“Constitución Política del Estado”, CPE Art. 232 state that to convene a Constituent Assembly, a Special Law approved with 2/3 of the votes of the members of Congress is required.

The Congress is made up by 130 “Diputados” and 27 Senators for a Total of 157 members. This means that you need 105 votes to reach the required 2/3.

MAS has 72 “Diputados” and 12 Senators for a Total of 84 members of Congress.
MNR has 7 “Diputados” and 1 Senator for a Total of 8 members of Congress.
UN has 8 “Diputados” and 1 Senator for a Total of 9 members of Congress
PODEMOS has 43 “Diputados” and 13 Senators for a Total of 56 members of Congress.

This means, MAS needs 21 extra votes to reach the required 2/3 of the vote. Therefore, the wording of this “Special Law” needs the consent of other forces of Congress. Furthermore, MAS, MNR, UN, and PODEMOS have all pledged a “Referendum for Autonomies” to be voted on the same day that the members for the Constituent Assembly are elected.

Finally, the result, either for or against this “Referendum for Autonomies” will be binding to the Constituent Assembly, because the real “sovereignty” resides in “the people…”.

“Constitución Política del Estado”, CPE Art. 2 “La soberanía reside en el pueblo; …”.

9:35 PM  
Anonymous Pablo said...

Come on “Paisano”, please stop fantasising about the “fifty years government”.
And please read again the link you gave us, the so-called “praetorian guard” refers to the closest AGL´s friends, and not to the entire “elite” of his party. It´s just a colloquial term.

Are you a kind of prophet or something? Can you really see the future?

I think you are not writing about the same country than Jim and the other readers.

You wake up! There´s no such a conspiracy! Nobody is trying to take your freedom away! Evo got a 54%! is there something more democratic than that?

Stop applying your “nazi´s” theory! You could say exactly the same about any major social event in the world history! Take the Latin-American or North American independence! Take the 1952 revolution! Take the French revolution! Whatever you want! You cannot compare Evo with Hitler!

9:36 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Anonymous # 1,
You had me surprised for a moment and I may yet still be, but the article did not criticize Cuba or Venezuela; it simply contrasted the political environment. Still, that’s coming from AGL, which may mean something. He is much more the diplomat than Evo is or is likely to be. Evo is still snapping at the US every time an olive branch is offered. That's understandable on a personal level, less so as a nation's leader.
Paisano,
I’m not usually a conspiracy theorist, but let’s look at it. There really can’t be a successful revolution in a country without misery. Evo undermined every government effort to better the nation since the 2002 election. He claims that their efforts were bad for Bolivia. Without debating that particular point, the violent protests and blockades managed to thoroughly disrupt internal and international commerce in such a way as to ensure misery and poverty continued or increased until Evo’s opportunity to govern came. Now he can play the revolutionary hero (assuming no one does the same to him). Perhaps the constituent assembly will be the point to truly “revolutionize” Bolivian society and government. Of course, freedoms might have to “temporarily” be constrained. It may be a stretch, but re-writing the basic legal foundation for your country is always cause for concern. I’ve asked three times now what’s wrong with the current constitution that it needs complete revision. No one has answered yet…

10:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How did Hitler come about to this discussion?

10:23 PM  
Anonymous http://b2bolivia.blogspot.com said...

I wouldn't have voted for Morales either (thanks to the usless consulate and f* the laws restricting Bolivians abroad from voting)... and yeah I too am pretty bummed with Evo's presidency - but that doesn't change anything does it?

Now, It's safe to assume that Jim is in "the inner circle" when it comes to politicos and advisers (and if you are not please leave Bolivia now, for your loyal work has been totally useless or un-appreciated) hence he may be granted a honorary praetorian title.

Scratch that, the true praetorians are the altenos who will swear loyalty to Evo in 11 days, the "Comité de defensa del gobierno de Evo"... and we talked evil about the Juventud Crucenista...who knew.

On the comittee:
http://www.bolpress.com/politica.php?Cod=2006010507

Paisano te invito a mi blog.

10:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The Roman praetors were first established in 367 B.C. They evolved into the Praetorian Guard that came to exercise great power, making and unmaking emperors and allowing political and military action outside of the law. What rules that were observed were announced by the issuance of edicts. The Guard was characterized by corruption and political venality and was closed down by Constantine in 312 A. D". (John Stockwell)

So now AGL has a Praetorian guard? According to the above's definition, is not surprising.

"como anillo al dedo"

12:30 AM  
Blogger Javier F. said...

Norman,

Does the Bolivian constitution needs changing?

Well, yes, ...I guess.

You see, I figure, most of us Bolivians have not study the constitution to the point that we can be sure it needs a complete wipe-out.

As we all know, in the so many years we have this constitution, the country has not progressed....so who to blame?

If you ask Jim, he will tell you "decades of conservative economic policies imposed on Bolivia from Washington". I think if you ask Bolivians, they will tell you the government, and under straight assotiation, the constitution that allows the polititians to ruin the country.

I think it needs a change, but perhaps not a complete re-writing.

Just to give you 2 examples. The problems that we had with the congresional seat last quarter on 2005 was thanks to the poorly written constitution on that matter.

Currently today we have another debate with the Senate's presidency...the constitution tells you that the VP (AGL) is the president of the senate, but it does not tell you that the VP could vote. The constitution, tells you we have 27 senator, so it is pressumed 27 votes...not 28. For more details click here*.

And we could find many more examples.

Constitution are very important, and they shoud not be allowed to be changed easily...so the question here should be instead...how dangerous is for Bolivia to allow MAS re-write the constitution?

Saludos, Javier F.

* http://debatiendobolivia.blogspot.com/2006/01/cuantos-senadores-tiene-bolivia-27-28.html

1:04 AM  
Blogger federico said...

the juventud crucenista earned its fame by beating up unarmed, peaceful demonstrators. evo's people are simply organizing to protect a legitimately, and massively, elected democratic government.

as usual I see much uncertainty about the new government from those who haven't even taken the time to read MAS's governmental program, and who are so terrified by White House and Escualido tales of tyranny in Venezuela that they fail to realize that Chavez's too is a democratically elected government, which allows a vibrant-to say the least- freedom of the press, and maintains 70%+ popularity.

i think in the next year it will be necessary to point out again and again and again, that Bolivians have wanted a FUNDAMENTAL, TOTAL change in our political system for many years, beginning perhaps most visibly with the march of Eastern indigenous people's (no, not city dwelling oligarchs, but guarani's, moxos, etc.) to La Paz during Banzer's presidency.

The revolution of 1952 was essentially unfinished even before Barriento's U.S. sponsored coup in 1964, and the feeling amongst most Bolivians is that we need a Constituent Assembly to create a state which represents all of us.

Santa Cruz's power brokers simply used their money and media influence to conjure up a January "agenda" of autonomy in a desperate attempt to hold on to power at the regional level before the poor majority finally reached national power.

Everything else is propaganda.

1:10 AM  
Anonymous eduardo said...

Again, I am relieved that AGL is on board and that as long as Morales trusts him, then we will be okay and that things will not get out of hand. I do not believe that Evo is surrounded by "yes-men" and we have seen that he admits that he does not have all of the answers.

Again, I go back to the meeting in Santa Cruz with the Comite Pro Santa Cruz, where Evo said that he wants to "learn from the empresarios" and that AGL is his brain, while Evo brings the social conscience to this administration.

I hope that this administration continues on this middle road and resists the pressure to solve all the problems by the end of January. AGL has said that if they need to break up blockades, then they will. AGL said that if members of the landless movement illegally occupy lands, then they will be arrested. Clearly, he is a hope for Bolivia, let's hope that there is no split farther down the road.

1:18 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

Thanks Javier. I'll check out the link.//Eric, 54% is a majority, not massive. Evo & AGL both understand this. Again, what needs to be changed in the constitution? I'm about 1/3 through reading it and have only minor difficulties with it. It certainly protects the rights of all Bolivians equally thus far. http://www.congreso.gov.bo/5biblioteca/paginas/constitucion/consvig.html . The autonomy movement is based on a feeling that the petro / gas producing areas are paying the bills for the entire country and not getting a fair portion from the national government. Take a look at the number of police and their equipment in La Paz as compared to that of SC. (That doesn’t mean I agree with their methods or those of the Juvenil.) //Eduardo, I believe AGLs role is to appear reasonable, but his history shows him to be the more radical of the two. The next several months will be interesting. I’m curious how he thinks he can break up blockades without getting into the same quagmire as Goni.

8:41 AM  
Blogger Paisano de Elite said...

Pablito,

Jim considers himself an intellectual and a close friend to Lineras, which is why I am refereeing to him as a Praetorian. I did forget to write intellectual before elite, so I grant you the honor to correct my mistake.

I am no prophet, but I do have the capability to read the past, analyze the information according to the present and hypothesize about the future. You tell me to stop applying my MASi theory; I call it and Hypothesis since a theory will be too unimaginable cruel for as Bolivians, but your examples are way too broad to comment; so I ask you to analyze these similarities:

The Movimiento Al Socialismo (MAS) has the similar nationalist and socialist ideologies than Hitler’s National Socialists (NASIS), which simply put is just raw fascism. Both had intellectual elite that manipulate the communications. Both had their people power coming from the middle class, workers & peasants. Both blamed the problems of the Country to outside powerful economies and to the old political class. Hitler allied himself closely with two dictators, The Imperator of Japan and Mussolini in Italy; Evo has Fidel in his island and Chavez is like the reincarnation of Mussolini. The MAS wipala is used and showed in exactly the same way the Nazis used their swastika. As you can see, we do can compare MAS with the Nazis.

Why I don’t live the MAS status as just other fascist party, since most people agree they are fascist and the Nazis where made infamous because of their racial intolerance against one part of their population, the Jews. Like them, I do not see, yet, MAS blaming an specific Bolivian Race of all of the problems; but what I see is that MAS wants to give Quechua Bolivians, Aymara Bolivians and other supposedly Native Bolivians more rights in the country than to the Afro Bolivians, Anglo Bolivians, Japanese Bolivians, Spanish Bolivians, etc, etc; beginning with the designation of the Constituent representatives.

Ones you start giving more rights to one part of the population in base of race, you give the opportunity to the Eric’s a couple of blogs above to start peaking a section of the society to blame on all the problems and then you approach yourself dangerously from an already bad fascism to an unacceptable Nazism.

Many people were aware of the dangers of Hitler and the Nazis back in the forties, they kept quiet and a lot of people where sacrificed for us to learn from our mistakes, as humans. Nothing is exactly the same, but I will be a coward if I do not point out the possibility I see of a similar event happening now in this part of the world.

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, Ladies and Gentlemen,

There you have it on full display, the paranoid view, unvarnished, of the Bolivian elite having watched their ADN washed off the map, even in its boyish Tuto reincarnation.

As we can recall, whites in South Africa sounded all the same alarms when they too, had to give power the majority they had frozen out of power so long.

We can thank the writer above for being honest in sharing his fantasies -- an x-ray of the Bolivian elite's mind at work.

Too bad of course thay they didn't bother to apply the same analysis to Banzer, who actually was a fascist and who adopted the Nazi colors and logos for his party.

But, as the writer above might say, "Well, that's different. He was OUR Nazi."

9:57 AM  
Blogger Norman said...

This post has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:13 AM  
Blogger Originalexplorer said...

Sorry to do this, but I'm paisting a comment I just spent too much time writing on Jim's last point here so that Norman and Nomad will actually read and respond to it. Hope thats not too "illegal" in the world of blogs...


Originalexplorer said...

Man this conversation has gotten really out of hand and is about way to much stuff. Anyway a few responses to certain issues.

To Nomad and Norman, in no particular order:

1) You both seem to express a whole lot of faith in "democracy" (meaning the election of representatives who until Evo were all from white elites) and the constitutional process. Both of these are problematic.

With regard to democracy, until the rupture in neoliberal governance from 2000-2005, elections in Bolivia were no more than a cycling of similar political elites. These elites have persistently acted in their own interests or for business interests. Lets call your democracy “neoliberal democracy.”

It seems to me that democracy means something else to many ordinary Bolivians, as well as activists like Oscar Olivera, the group of scholar-activists associated with the Andean Oral History Workshop (Taller de Historia Oral Andina, THOA. I’m not sure if this organization still exists), and others. These movements are articulating visions of Andean democracy that radically conflict with your neoliberal democracy. Democracy in their view involves direct participation in decision-making, it involves accountability, and it involves social and economic development on their own terms. Whereas your democracy draws from the traditions of Western elites, especially the neoliberal brand that has emerged since the late 1970s, their democracy draws from draws on the cultural resources/memory forged by the indigenous movements, both symbolically (coca, whipla) and organizationally (ayllu), as well as the traditions of syndicalism and neighborhood organizations, to create a positive, pluralistic, alternative to the type of democracy you advocate. In some the social movements that you two so clearly consider distasteful and barbaric, Bolivians may be forging real democracy. If you are interested, read “The Culture of Democracy and Bolivia’s Indigenous Movements” (It’s a bit long, there is a shorter similar paper on the same site) by Robert Albro. Its available online if you do a google search and have adobe acrobat reader.

With regards to both of your overweening emphasis on constitutionality, it seems to me that the Bolivians who were out in the streets to throw out Goni and Mesa were resorting to that because neoliberal “democracy” had been unable to provide them with a way to express their voice and influence policy.

A thought that just came to me: Perhaps the only reason that Evo Morales could get elected was because of the popular unrest which galvanized people over the last five years and forced a situation where an opportunity to electorally influence change emerged.

I don’t have time to demolish nomad’s little timeline of events which he posted above, but its pretty flagrant to reduce the 2000 Water War to basically - oh those lazy, free-loading poor people… they always want HANDOUTS!!!!. Hey nomad, why didn’t you add “Maybe they should just all GET A JOB!!!” to your classist, commentary.
And lastly: You guys are defending the U.S.’s policies of torture and extra-juridical imprisonment. This is about the BIGGEST irony I think possible. On the one hand you guys are condemning Bolivians for not respecting constitutionality and the rule of law, yet you are playing apologist for the Bush administration’s human rights record. Absurd!!

Anyway, this is why I cant post often; I’ve just spent a half hour writing this.
-Alex

3:07 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Again with labels. I should have paid more attention in my Political Science courses. Paisano: The only truly fascist government was that of Mussolini; the only true Nazi government that of Hitler. You can compare and contrast Mr. Morales’ and his party to either of them and there will be similarities and differences. While I’m no fan of Mr. Morales, I don’t believe he compares to Hitler or that MAS reflects Nazism. Mr. Morales might be racist, but I don’t believe he’s genocidal. The other aspects of fascism (centralized autocratic government with a dictatorial leader) are not possible at this point. They are present in some of his dear friends though (particularly in Cuba). Of course, he is proposing a re-write of the basic legal document of the nation. The reasons given to re-write have been vague and on an emotional instead of logical level.
Anonymous (and others): Just an observation: Putting words in the mouth of your opponent completely undermines your credibility.
Alex: You did take some time writing that, didn’t you! To be sure, the US is not a direct democracy but rather a representative republic. Really, with an elected congress, so is Bolivian (in concept). A couple of differences I’ve seen in Bolivia that hinder the political process are these: 1) Parliamentary immunity ensures corruption. 2) Corruption leads to a lack of faith in the government. 3) The lack of faith leads to use of methods outside the constitution / law (violence, blockades, etc.) in order to “be heard”. 4) Law enforcement is woefully inadequate to address this. 5) Those who respect the law are therefore not heard, but only those willing to break it. Basically, a violent mob of about 40,000 people overthrew the elected government, and then prevented the constitutional succession. I don’t know if they represented the majority. I do know they undermined the constitution and that a whole lot of people seem to be okay with that.
One more thing, Alex; please let me know where I defended torture and extra-judicial punishment. I have acquaintances who were tortured as POWs by the Iraqis in 1991. I saw first hand what the Iraqis did to the Kuwaitis and to their country. I do not, have not, and never would condone torture.

3:55 PM  
Blogger Originalexplorer said...

Norman:
You are quite correct. Nomad was defending Guantanimo Bay, not you. Sorry for lumping you two together. Maybe its because both of your names start with N.

You however, do not actually address my point. at all. One of my points was that many in bolivia reject representative democracy and prefer an alternative direct participation, which they are forging in their social movements. I listed some reasons, and you have provided a nice list of other reasons for people not to believe in the current bolivian "democratic" system.

However, Norman, you do not actually address the heart of my argument: That Bolivia's social movements are made of up of hundreds of thousands of people (not with all the same goals and methods) who are in fact articulating egalitarian and participatory forms of democracy that represents a threat to the entrenched elites and their methods of maintaining their power.

Your characterization of Bolivia's wide range of social movements who participated in throwing out Goni as "a violent mob of about 40,000 people" really reveals who you identify with in this scenario.
-alex

4:37 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Alex, I watched it. It was a violent mob that may or may not have represented the majority. I characterize the Santa Cruz autonomy protests and blockades the same way. On your other points, Bolivia's various social movements with differing goals constantly clamoring ultimately prevent any true progress. They are not articulating a participatory form of democracy. They are demonstrating anarchy. A true democracy doesn't work with groups larger than about ten.
Most other forms of government require a central figure, a monarch or dictator of some form, which lend itself to abuse. But a representative republic gives a fair voice to the people. It requires maturity though to work. I have two basic hopes for Bolivia: that the US and Bolivia can cooperate in areas of mutual interest to the advantage of both, and that Bolivians can give their elected leaders an opportunity to lead. What are the odds of that though?

5:08 PM  
Anonymous http://b2bolivia.blogspot.com said...

Eric I recomend a little more reading and a little more neutrality "the juventud crucenista earned its fame by beating up unarmed, peaceful demonstrators. evo's people are simply organizing to protect a legitimately, and massively, elected democratic government."

First of the Juventud Crucenista is at least 30 years old, and it earned its fame by combating dictatorships into getting oil taxes to fund Santa Cruz development plans. Grante, they've been recently painted as fascists who beat up protesters (I'm not saying there are not fascists within that movement) but that's not what they are. And you know according to them they were simply organizing to protect a legitimately, and massively, democratic claim of autonomy.

And while to you evo's people may be little angels I can tell you the kind of crowd that it's sure to attract, heck Ican even send you video clips of the inocent cocaleros lynching army recruits and dragging their bodies accross the streets of sacaba. Very democratic I may add.

Enough is enough, a "democratic, massively elected" government doesn't need paramilitaries.

5:15 PM  
Blogger Originalexplorer said...

Norman, I guess we will just have to disagree. I never claimed the social movements where angelic and perfect and not violent, merely that they were expressing an alternative democratic project. That can be violent sometimes, especially when a population has such a intimate familiarity with exploitation, as is the case in Bolivia.

Also, with regard to the likelihood of Bolivia and the U.S. cooperating in both of their best interests, I would make a further clarification: If you meant that the Bolivian and US elites might cooperate for their mutual benefit, that has already happened for the last 20 years. If you mean that the US and Bolivia will cooperate in the best interests of their people... Well I don't know what's in Evo's head, but I can refer you to this with regard to the US's tradition of "cooperation" with Latin American Countries:

http://www.zompist.com/latam.html
http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

All of course in the name of our strategic interests.

Anyway, all I'm saying is the US has never had a very good track record when it comes to cooperating with countries in anything but its own self interest. Especially with President Bush at the helm.

Alex

6:01 PM  
Blogger Norman said...

Alex, I can find as many sites demonstrating where US aid has helped. I've been referred to enough sites by folks claiming anarchy was the only way. No one has argued that they first tried their constitution and laws. The problem with defending mass violence / revolt / “pick your title” as anything but a LAST resort is that you no recourse if it is used against you. I wonder what the MAS plan is for breaking blockades when necessary.

6:34 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch closely to the new Vice President.

To anticipate future events in Bolivia, I suggest to keep an eye on the VP elect AGL, as he seems to be pulling the strings from the backstage, for better or worst. Let’s hope it’s for better.
From Jim’s post:
“The shift of Political Power in Bolivia is still in Motion”
“Gas and Oil: Playing Skillful Chess”
“Constituent Assembly: Full Power”
All, are very important issues in today’s Bolivia.

4:46 PM  
Anonymous eric said...

Grante, they've been recently painted as fascists who beat up protesters

Not painted, thats what they did. And if it was not sanctioned by the group as a whole, I must have missed the public apology and disavowal of actions by "rogue elements". The only comment made by Santa Cruz's "civic leaders" was that it was a shame that violence happened. That is bullshit, the violence was intentionally and premeditatedly started by the Juventud Crucenista and Nacion Camba people.

Yes, Santa Cruz has a long history of civic struggle. I am not familiar with the J.C.'s origins but a great example is the Igualitario movement of last century.

Santa Cruz does deserve to get money for its development from oil and gas exploited within its bounds, but this includes the Guarani and other indigenous nations, not just the elite in the capital. Who by the way also "lobbied" dictatorships for huge tracts of lands in the 70's, lands which are largely unproductive and are a big reason why this elite wants out before Evo or anyone else decides to implement a fair land reform.

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7:37 PM  
Blogger Michael Agresta said...

If you`re interested in reading what Garcia Linera has to say about democracy, representative or not, I translated part of one of his essays and posted it on my blog. Not totally legal, but I can`t imagine he or Muela del Diablo would mind. Dig in:

http://learningfrombolivia.blogspot.com

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