And Now the Results – Same as Before, Government by Negotiation
Here are the latest results from yesterday’s dual vote in Bolivia, to elect members to the Constituent Assembly and the region-by-region vote on regional autonomy.
Seats in the Constituent Assembly
MAS 53%
PODEMOS 23.5%
UN 4.3%
MNR/FRI 3.5%
MNR 2.7%
MBL 2.3%
CN 2%
ASP 1.2
OTHERS 1.2%
Regional Autonomy
National Results:
NO 56%, YES 44%
Departmental Results:
NO – Chuquisaca, La Paz, Cochabamba, Oruro, Potosi
YES – Santa Cruz, Beni, Tarija, Pando
What Does All This Mean
First, as a measure of popular support for Bolivia’s various political parties, it means voters are pretty much exactly where they were in December. MAS holds basically the same strong majority (53% now, 53,7% in December), Jorge Quirga’s PODEMOS is a distant second and lost five points (23.5% now, 28.6% in December) and Samuel Doria Medina’s UN party still runs a very distant third and also lost support (4.3% now, 7.8% in December).
It is also a pretty good indication that PODEMOS' strategy, of running against Hugo Chavez instead of for any concrete vision for Bolivia's future, well, it didn't work at all. Back to the drawing boards for Quiroga and his campaign consultants.
More importantly, it still means that Bolivia will navigate its political way forward through negotiation. Evo Morales and MAS doesn’t have a working majority in the Congress sufficient to do much of want it wants on its own (the convening of the Assembly vote was itself a party-to-party negotiation, which is why political parties ran the show) and it won’t have the 2/3 vote required to take action on a new constitution in the Assembly. In other words, whatever happens in the Assembly, and with the implementation of autonomy, will be a negotiation among the political parties.
Negotiation is pretty much what all Bolivian politics is about these days. The government has set a six-month period for renegotiating its contracts with foreign oil companies. It has been negotiating with unions and others over what to do with the collapsing airline, LAB. It is negotiating on land, on teacher salaries, and on a wide range of other issues.
In other words, for those looking for Bolivia to turn into a one party state with authoritarian rule, you just won’t find it here. In its place you will find something else, a democracy with many players and a lot of complicated issues to talk through. For a country that had endured far more than its share of dictatorships, that’s not a bad thing at all, not by a long shot.
Seats in the Constituent Assembly
MAS 53%
PODEMOS 23.5%
UN 4.3%
MNR/FRI 3.5%
MNR 2.7%
MBL 2.3%
CN 2%
ASP 1.2
OTHERS 1.2%
Regional Autonomy
National Results:
NO 56%, YES 44%
Departmental Results:
NO – Chuquisaca, La Paz, Cochabamba, Oruro, Potosi
YES – Santa Cruz, Beni, Tarija, Pando
What Does All This Mean
First, as a measure of popular support for Bolivia’s various political parties, it means voters are pretty much exactly where they were in December. MAS holds basically the same strong majority (53% now, 53,7% in December), Jorge Quirga’s PODEMOS is a distant second and lost five points (23.5% now, 28.6% in December) and Samuel Doria Medina’s UN party still runs a very distant third and also lost support (4.3% now, 7.8% in December).
It is also a pretty good indication that PODEMOS' strategy, of running against Hugo Chavez instead of for any concrete vision for Bolivia's future, well, it didn't work at all. Back to the drawing boards for Quiroga and his campaign consultants.
More importantly, it still means that Bolivia will navigate its political way forward through negotiation. Evo Morales and MAS doesn’t have a working majority in the Congress sufficient to do much of want it wants on its own (the convening of the Assembly vote was itself a party-to-party negotiation, which is why political parties ran the show) and it won’t have the 2/3 vote required to take action on a new constitution in the Assembly. In other words, whatever happens in the Assembly, and with the implementation of autonomy, will be a negotiation among the political parties.
Negotiation is pretty much what all Bolivian politics is about these days. The government has set a six-month period for renegotiating its contracts with foreign oil companies. It has been negotiating with unions and others over what to do with the collapsing airline, LAB. It is negotiating on land, on teacher salaries, and on a wide range of other issues.
In other words, for those looking for Bolivia to turn into a one party state with authoritarian rule, you just won’t find it here. In its place you will find something else, a democracy with many players and a lot of complicated issues to talk through. For a country that had endured far more than its share of dictatorships, that’s not a bad thing at all, not by a long shot.

The Democracy Center, based in Cochabamba Bolivia and San Francisco California, works globally to advance human rights through a combination of investigation and reporting, training citizens in the art of public advocacy, and organizing international citizen campaigns. If you like the Blog, consider becoming a subscriber to The Democracy Center's free e-newsletter by sending us an email at 
65 Comments:
I agree w/ your overall assessment. But I'd caution that the CNE is still counting votes (as of my writing this, final results are only in for 2 of the 70 circunscripciones).
And I'd caution against reading only voting results (as important as those are), seat distributions will matter tremendously. The vote-counting rules actually punish the largest parties, so I wouldn't be surpirsed if MAS doesn't win a full majority of the total seats (it'd still be the largest bloc, of course).
I'm also most curious to see what kind of constitution comes out of this -- if they do respect the political (and economic?) autonomy of the four deparments were "SÍ" won. E.g. what veto power will Santa Cruz & Tarija have over national oil/gas policy?
Jim, you sound as bitten and bitter as yesterdays MAS partisans, Evo included; maybe because these results are also a pretty good indication that MAS’ strategy of making a show with the hydrocarbon nationalization, the new agrarian revolution, the paying for everybody to be able to watch the world soccer championship, Bolivia is not in it. And, the new gas price to Argentina; which represents the only real good thing so fare, which by the way was PODEMOS proposal of what we have to do with our gas during elections. All that plus MAS abusive use of the state TV channel without letting any opposition to use it, with Evo’s breaking the constitution every day doing political campaign and, they do not do better. To bad, this could only mean back to the drawing boards for Evo and his campaign consultants, where did I read this last sentence?.
Thanks that Bolivians are not a heard off sheep, or llamas, and copying your impressions; “Evo Morales and MAS doesn’t have a working majority in the Congress sufficient to do much of what it wants on its own” like he, Chavez, MAS, The Democracy Center and all the other fascist organizations were hoping for. Or, as you also well put it; “whatever happens in the Assembly, and with the implementation of autonomy, will be a negotiation among the political parties.” Something Evo and MAS partisans wanted to avoid since they realize, with our actual congress, that doing real politics is not bulling around but searching for real compromise. Evo is not going to be able to maneuver with presidential decrees around the Constituent Assembly like he does with our congress.
Finally, unlike you and Evo want to misinform, the elections for Departmental Autonomies in Bolivia have won, 4 to 0. This was not a Country consultation, was a departmental consultation; 5 departments did not win anything and 4 won autonomy. That is why there was no celebration in any of the departments that said NO. I am sorry for them and sure that they are going to regret this decision for many years, but; that is democracy.
Well B-L, I can't agree with you 100% this time. I thought that Jim's post and the previous were toned down, fair, and even handed. I particularly liked Melissa's and Maria's input. Points to both you and Jim; neither PODEMOS' nor MAS' strategies appeared to have much effect. No one ran scared of Chavez and Mr. Morales grandstanding (the gas, the Cuban doctors, the Venezuelan helicopters, the unending accusations against the US, etc.) was ineffectual. (I thought it would pull him at least 60%, though I'm relieved it didn't. I'm anxious to see what type of constitution will come out of this. Still, with 65 presidents and 16 constitutions in roughly 180 years...
But it was a beautiful day! and it was safe to ride bikes in Santa Cruz too.
As it stands right now, MAS has 134 of 255 assembly members, which is a partial majority of 52.5 percent, far, far, short of the absolute majority, needed for MAS to write in the "Jim Schultz clauses", such as forbidding in perpetuity the privatization of any government-owned function, the nationalization of all private enterprise, restricting the ownership of property to everyone except ayllus, requiring all Bolivians to wear a llama wool poncho, etc., etc.
norman, right on man it's fun to ride your bike on election day!
A small point: It seems fair to say that the similarities of yesterday's votes to those of December's presidential election represent a bigger blow to PODEMOS than to MAS.
First, PODEMOS, having lost the first round, effectively had more to lose by repeating their performance this time around than did MAS, who won both times. That actually seems redundant to have to say, but apparently it is not. Imagine your soccer team beats your rival team 3-nil, and the next time you play them you beat them 3-0 again. Now imagine that a condition of the second game is that one coach must be fired based on the results. Would you fire the guy who lost twice - and didn't even gain in aggregate goals - or would you fire the winner because his team didn't score 4 or 5 goals in the second game?
Secondly, at the time of the presidential election, a commonly heard refrain among MAS voters was that any new government would have a near-impossible job to do, but that at least Evo was proposing to attempt change, which the country needed, and so it was important to give him a chance. Those who voted for PODEMOS or others seemed pretty clearly to oppose the MAS platform. Given such attitudes then, it seemed likely to me that many MAS supporters would become disillusioned as campaign rhetoric turned to sticky reality, and vote for other parties or not vote at all by now. On the other hand, it seemed highly unlikely that those who voted against Evo for proposing his ideal platform in December would vote for MAS now, after 6 months of reality-marred attempts at implementing that same platform. Take the silliest example, that of the Chavez issue. Which is harder to imagine: the former MAS voter who sees Evo playing buddy-buddy with an arguably ambitious and certainly controversial foreign leader, and hears the national and international rhetoric criticizing their relationship, and decides perhaps Evo isn’t the champion of sovereignty he claimed to be, so votes for a minority party; or the former PODEMOS voter who sees Evo playing buddy-buddy with Chavez and says to himself, “Well, I thought he was a kooky leftist, but if Hugo Chavez is calling the shots, that’s a different story!” and so changes his vote to MAS? I dare say the latter sounds preposterous.
I submit that hanging on to an unprecedented simple majority after several challenging and controversial months of actual governing is a significant feat. After the hamhanded way in which MAS itself has handled much of the lead-up to this vote, not to mention PODEMOS’ own intensive campaigning, I have to guess this smarts for Tuto and Co., and not to much at all for the Evo camp. This is not cheerleading on my part – it just seems a logical analysis.
As for me, I’m just sad to see traditional political parties (I count both MAS and PODEMOS) controlling this whole thing. The voting results are interesting. I am not nearly as optimistic as I was once was about how interesting the Assembly itself will be.
And I, too, would like to better understand what the autonomy votes really mean.
I don't know Dan. Popular wisdom is that elections tend to favor the incumbent and that the honeymoon for the newly elected is at least six months or better. PODEMOS didn't have much to lose. MAS however wanted to dominated the assembly and didn't come close. Now the pressure is on MAS to build coalitions. I think PODEMOS is sighing in relief right now. They've got some breathing room (in spite of a weak campaign).
Seats in the General Assembly
I'm barely following this, but where is the other 6%? The percentages given add up to 94%.
I did an initial breakdown here:
http://bolicarreras.blogspot.com/2006/07/bolivian-elections-people-have-spoken.html
Where Jim Schultz' does show his ideological blinders -and lack of objectivity -is when he overemphasizes thet PODEMOS' anti-Chavez stragegy. IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN A VACUUM.
The reality was that MAS, with the power and authority of the Bolivian government behind it, launched an all-out campaign. The rhetoric coming from their side was fairly harsh, and basically painted the YES vote as an endorsement of the oligarchic pro-autonomy forces in Santa Cruz, who are in bed with imperialism...yadda, yadda, yadda. To some extent this strategy was succesful, since the NO votes in places like Chuquisaca and Cochabamba, might have swung the overall popular vote the other way. And the rhetoric put out by both NATIONAL camps did not really explain how both departments might benefit from more autonomy.
It also ignores the very public spectacle of Chavez explaining to Bolivians at a rally, why they needed to overwhelmingly vote for MAS for the constituent assembly.
And ultimately, the spin by both Schultz and Dan tries to minimize the damage to Evo, by over-emphasizing how much or little votes PODEMOS, MNR, et al. got relative to MAS/Evo.
That is a largely irrelevant argument, the established and even new parties, pretty much are dead and buried.
But this was a contest between EVO and ABE (Anyone But Evo), in the same way that the presidential elections were.
Evo carries majorities in rural areas and in the highlands. But he lost overwhelmingly in the eastern areas, though he keeps pockets of support.
And even in his areas of support, he did not get the overwhelming mandate to draft a constitution that would "re-found" Bolivia as he promised. In addition, there are significant percentages of Bolivians in the Western Urban areas whose do not trust Evo.
Where Evo undoubtedly lost, was in his repeatedly stated intention of creating some sort of Aymara-nation within Bolivia - or at the core of a "new" Bolivia. The very language approved by highland voters keeps a centralized "Bolivia" under government control - which blunts ANY autonomous nation within the highlands. His failure to obtain an absolute majority in the assembly, limits it being done through that a constitutional draft.
Obviously MAS would have been even happier with a supermajority. I just thought it was a bit of a stretch for some folks to paint this as an overall defeat for MAS relative to other parties.
Norman - do you think PODEMOS was pretty pessimistic? They lost points since the election and you say they are relieved - did they plan to lose even more?
Also, is your popular wisdom U.S. wisdom or Bolivian wisdom? Bolivian politicians don't seem to have particularly steamy honeymoons. And as far as favoring the incumbent, I don't think that usually means that the incumbent gains votes. This election did, in fact, favor the incumbent, did it not? If you're PODEMOS, the incumbent gained on you and won more than twice the number of votes you won. If you're "Anyone But Evo," MAS still won more votes than all of your candidates combined.
It will indeed be interesting to see how the Assembly plays out. And in all the realms to which Jim referred, it will be interesting to see how this government's various negotiation processes go.
Boli-Nica - kudos. A creative twist to paint autonomy as defined in this vote as the hope for indigenous Bolivians and an Aymara Nation. Fascinating to suggest that this option, championed by the business class of the oil regions, could represent an opportunity for Zapatista-style intrastate community sovereignty. Those silly campesinos are really going to feel dumb when they realize what they've done.
My great dissappointment here is that the vote and the subsequent roster of reps to the Assembly do seem to reflect a continuing lock on power by the traditional parties (old and new). I'm genuinely curious, Boli-Nica (or whoever): how, in light of these results, does one conclude that the parties are dead and buried? Would that it were true.
From what little I saw of PODEMOS campaign, if they weren't pessimistic, they should have been. All I recall being offered was slinging accusations of Evo being a Chavista. Bolivia knew he was Chavista before the presidential elections, so why should pointing it out now have made a difference? I didn't see a PODEMOS campaign emphasizing what they had to offer. I saw and heard incessant, well done and well financed advertising by MAS. Evo himself set the measure of his success: 75 to 80% of the seats in the assembly giving him free reign to write any constitution he wants. He fell way short of his set goal; therefore, I would expect him and MAS to be disappointed. Now, as pointed out by Jim, they have to negotiate. It wasn't an overall defeat for MAS; it was a failure, by a wide margin, to achieve their stated goals.
Am I the only one who thinks that Evo just lost his shot at getting the rules changed to allow for his re-election????
Dan, I am simply saying that the "NO" vote in the five departments acts as a bar to any top-down form of Aymara autonomy, at least from how I read the language of the referendum. If Cochabamba is effectively barred from any sort of autonomy, due to its vote, then so is any neo-Kollasuyu on the departments of La Paz. And the failure to win a majority of constituents in the assembly pretty much kills the possibility that any radical project will be enacted.
UNDISPUTED FACT: Indigenous people's DO have autonomy and self rule based on their unique "habits and customs" at the local level, whose jurisidiction is recognized by the Bolivian State as indigenous peoples within a mutli-ethnic nation. That is based both on a couple of laws passed in the 90's, but we don't talk about that because it was done by the evil Goni.
LASTLY, What part of the RESOURCES OF THE STATE DO WE NOT GET???? The EU commmission mentioned that the MAS government went overboard by campaigning actively - showcasing Chavez gifts and public works. The electoral commission has cited the State TV for unduly restricting non-MAS parties. He could helicopter all over the place. Whatever, true or not, that happens everywhere (see Urib e)... But to deny it as a factor is stupid, particularly when you have a 80 percent approval rate according to most polls.
Fujimori was in a similar situation, both in terms of popularity and state control, and he managed to get a majority to go with his schemes. Evo couldn't with all the same advantages.
Bol-Nica,
Are you even in Bolivia sweetie?
The PODEMOS TV ads were ONLY about Chavez as were their full page ads in the papers featuring Chavez with a big rifle. Those oif us who are actually here saw them.
Either you didn't see the ads or have some reason to pretend they were something they weren't. Care to confess why that might be honey?
Bol-Nica,
Are you even in Bolivia sweetie?
The PODEMOS TV ads were ONLY about Chavez as were their full page ads in the papers featuring Chavez with a big rifle. Those oif us who are actually here saw them.
Either you didn't see the ads or have some reason to pretend they were something they weren't. Care to confess why that might be honey?
BUZZ... YOU ARE WRONG..
Nowhere do I dispute what Tuto or PODEMOS said in their campaign ads -- which are widely available on YouTube b/t/w, courtesy of Jonathan.
Nowhere do I indicate whether or not this campaign focus was a good or a bad thing. I merely mentioned the fact that the governing party, had the leg up on them, and shot away at the pro-autonomy forces with a pretty vicious campaign.
And the Chavez issue is self-inflicted. You have to be a true believer or seriously deluded to miss the fact that when MAS kicked off its campaign it mounted an elaborate show where Chavez was the featured speaker, and like some demented Santa Claus in a poncho, came bearing quite impressive gifts. But maybe it was gift of gab that ultimately made more of an impression:
"Evo came to power to stay, the bolivian revolution is here to stay, and the Constituyente is only the first step"
"if the revolutionary forces do not get a smashing majority, the process of drafting a new constitution is not viable through peaceful means"
"if the right wins in the Constitutional Assembly....."it is capable of stopping nationalization"
http://bolicarreras.blogspot.com/2006/05/bolivia-chavez-visits-tells-bolivians.html
Was Chavez an issue? Well acording to a recent poll that shows that 51 percent of Bolivians consider he "interferes" in Bolivia's internal affairs. Maybe the anti-Chavista position was i. really justified and ii. a politically smart thing to do.
Bol-Nica,
Anonymous asked you a reasonable question. Why won't you answer it? Are you in Bolivia or not. If not, how can you comment with any credibility about what PODEMOS did or did not emphasize in their campaign ads?
You wrote:
"Where Jim Schultz' does show his ideological blinders -and lack of objectivity -is when he overemphasizes thet [sic] PODEMOS' anti-Chavez stragegy."
I am here and I saw the PODEMOS ads and they were Chavez, Chavez, Chavez. Is there any reader here who actually saw the ads who would disagree?
It isn't hard sir, look out the window and tell us if the country you see is Bolivia or somewhere else?
Hey genius, the answer to your question is a click of a mouse away. It is so obvious that I didn't bother answering anon's question.... How hard is it to figure out that MIAMI, FLORIDA IS NOT BOLIVIA???
I saw just about every Tuto-commercial, and even commented that what was put "out by both NATIONAL camps did not really explain how both departments [referring to Cochabamba and Chuquisaca) might benefit from more autonomy." Which hardly constitutes me denying that it was an "all Chavez affair".
I think they call this tripping over mouse turds. PODEMOS ads were weak, but they apparently didn't have much else. The incumbent had an advantage, as always, because, in addition to grandstand maneuvers, he could use state resources (and a LOT of Venezuelan state resources) to further his campaign. Where are we left now?
B-N, don't count MAS out on the constitutional re-write just yet. (I'm paranoid that way.) First, Evo has been underestimated too often. MAS will begin making deals and they’ve had success there because they think in what may euphemistically be called “non-traditional” ways.
Second, two terms isn’t in itself a bad thing. It’s a bit much to put up with given the current president, but in most places, an accepted norm. I don’t think that’s his primary focus anyway.
BTW, if I had been in the MAS leadership, in addition to having my candidates run under the MAS banner, I might have had some of my cronies run under opposition banners as well. This wasn’t a normal election by any stretch. Remember, Evo wrote the rules and in this race second and third place counted too. Why not try to take them all? He may, in fact, have his super-majority and we just don’t know it. Who of the opposition party winners and second place finishers are in Evo’s pocket? (Didn't I say I was paranoid?)
Gee Bol-Nica,
Did we hit a little nerve there?
Sorry we don't all want to spend our time on the Net seeking out your hidden bio or reading your site. Guess you and what you write aren;t all that interesting (which must be why you spend so many hours commenting here and praying you might find someone who will read you).
But now we all know. There you are, not even in this country, telling us all just what to think and pretending you have any clue at all about a campaign you weren't even an eyewitness to.
What a phony.
At least The people at The Democracy Center actually live here, while you sit up there in Miami, pontificating and pretending to be an expert.
Got any great insight on Lithuania you want to share too?
Anon,
Read a couple of back issues. B-Ns credentials are more than adequate. I expect he doesn't want to spend his time on the Net responding to all the Juanni-come-lately's. Now do you have something to contribute to the discussion besides insults?
Yeah Anon, you hit a real nerve there, LOL. Get back on the slow bus, your buddies there can teach you the mysteries of what lies behind screen names and avies, so you quit asking retarded questions. You don't even have to read my whole blog!!!
Once you have learned your lesson, then maybe you can come back and play with the big kids.
Norman, apparently there were "tercero" parties that MAS ran, but according to La Razon, they did not help out too much.
If anything, I think that MAS at least in urban Santa Cruz is vulnerable to being "influenced" by the "Civicos".
As far as Chavez, Fidel, et al. I think this MAS billboard speaks for itself.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4495/859/1600/pic02.jpg
For all those who havent been here before, I would advice them to ignore all what Bolinica says, since everytime it ends up in insults being used from those who bother and especially from him. No mather what Jim says, or anyone, he'll oppose, and never adding anything constructive. I generally just dont bother reading his posts anymore... but if they create a trail... Im left with little options!
Bol-Nica,
Thanks for that clarification. I guess that by "big kids" in terms of understanding Bolivia you mean people like you who don't actually live here but spend their time talking to the diaspora elite up there in Miami.
Yes, I am sure that gives you far more insight than actually living with and talking with Bolivans all day in Bolivia.
And readers, here you have on display exactly the kind of arrogance that has turned the Bolivian elite from the nation's power into a party that can't crack 25% with the voters anymore and is left to rambling on someone else's Blog from Sanchez Berzain's poolside in Maimi.
Happy extinction blowhard, to you AND your whopping ego.
Bol Nica, I think your highlight was when you quoted information from the Colombian Intelligence Services as fact in one of your posts. I look forward to seeing you top that.
Yawn, are you characters done?
Anyway to thinking people here,
Why did MAS fail to capture a supermajority? For the first time since the return of democracy, ONE party has had clear and unrestricted access to all the goodies of the Bolivian state. MNR, MIR, and ADN, even with small percentages of the vote, used to able to spread the love around come vote time. Promise a city job to ur compadre Juan and he damn well makes sure he drags his whole family to the polls on election day.
MAS was in a position to build on their solid electoral majority.
But, why did they fail so spectacularly?
Yo, B-N,
MAS beat your IBM boy by more than 2-1, again! Get a grip, in politics that is called kicking their ass. Stop whining and start trying to figure out why you and Sanchez Berzain are moping in Miami instead of governing in La Paz. That's the story here in Bolivia.
Sorry that is so hard for you to handle.
B-N,
As I said, I expected them to do a lot better. No one asked how they did compared to brand X. The question is, with an supposed 80% approval rate, why did they only pull 53%? Again, only in Bolivia is pulling just over half considered to be a landslide.
BTW, did you read the article about the 30 Cuban doctors defecting / going AWOL. They see Bolivia as a prosperous land. Interesting observation when so many keep referring to it as the poorest nation in South America.
Hey Anon, quick talking smack, you didn't vote for Evo. And since you probably still live at home - you know damn well that the reason your mommie didn't give the maid the day off on election day was so she wouldn't vote for Evo.
You sound just like every other uppity Bolivian, yourself. So angry and bitter, they can't see another Bolivian do well for himself without trying to destroy him.
Dear Bol-Nica,
Sorry to see you unraveling here, it is actually a little painful to watch.
Obviously you don't know anything about me other than that I actually live in Bolivia and you only pontificate about it from afar in Miami. Apparently that strikes some nerve in you.
Since you seem to feel some need to project a whole set of assumptions about who I am (all incorrect, as a matter of fact) to confirm your world view it is no surprise that you do the same towards Boliva as a whole.
Perhaps if you actually came here and talked to real people instead of your own thoughts, you might learn something.
In any event, sorry to see you coming unglued. Have a fine weekend and just get over it.
Wow, I must have hit home there, anon.
LMAO..you actually voted for Evo.
Hope you got paid somehow, cause if not you really are dumber than I thought.
No one with a half a brain would vote for such a retrograde and idiotic project. I mean bitch all you want about Goni or Tuto, but besides corrupt party hacks they had some pretty competent people, who could deal with 21st century realities.
MAS at its best, is mediocrities like Soliz Rada, and elected officials who can barely read and write. Cheap outdated sloganeering is fine for stupid gringos, but bankrupt ideas don't work to run a country.
Well, this has turned from a discussion thread to a rather infantile insult match. I'm out.
I own this thread...
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