Got Missiles?
The Associated Press published an interesting report today on the ongoing political scandal over the US taking control of 28 Bolivian anti-aircraft missiles just prior to Evo Morales's election as president.
A move has been gaining steam in the Bolivian Congress and elsewhere to try former President Eduardo Rodriguez for having handed the missiles over to the US government during his brief tenure last year. With the US government letting Rodriguez hang out to dry, the ex-president is starting to sing.
According to AP, the missile handover was part of a Bush administration plan to strip Latin American countries (well, some of them) of weapons the administration feared might somehow fall into the hands of "terrorists." Rodriguez says the US offered Bolivia $400,000 to destroy the 28 hand-held rocket launchers and that they were outdated anyway. But Rodriguez says that he has no idea how the missiles got handed over to US authorities.
While the US refuses to make a formal comment about how they actually got the missiles, Rodriguez says the Bush administration was clear in private why it was in such a rush to get its hands on them last October. He claims that US Ambassador David Greenlee told him after Morales' election victory, "If we didn't get the missiles out when we did, we weren't going to get them out."
Here's a link to the AP story.
A move has been gaining steam in the Bolivian Congress and elsewhere to try former President Eduardo Rodriguez for having handed the missiles over to the US government during his brief tenure last year. With the US government letting Rodriguez hang out to dry, the ex-president is starting to sing.
According to AP, the missile handover was part of a Bush administration plan to strip Latin American countries (well, some of them) of weapons the administration feared might somehow fall into the hands of "terrorists." Rodriguez says the US offered Bolivia $400,000 to destroy the 28 hand-held rocket launchers and that they were outdated anyway. But Rodriguez says that he has no idea how the missiles got handed over to US authorities.
While the US refuses to make a formal comment about how they actually got the missiles, Rodriguez says the Bush administration was clear in private why it was in such a rush to get its hands on them last October. He claims that US Ambassador David Greenlee told him after Morales' election victory, "If we didn't get the missiles out when we did, we weren't going to get them out."
Here's a link to the AP story.
24 Comments:
First, Mr. Bush is not mentioned in the article, but I’m well aware of your agenda there, so ‘nuff said.
Okay, now let’s pretend this issue was actually important enough to get Mr. Bush’s attention. Here’s how I see the conversation going...
--------
President: “What is it Dave?”
Ambassador: “Mr. President, it appears that Mr. Morales has a very good chance of winning this election and we have some concerns.”
President: “Mr. Who?”
Ambassador: Evo Morales, sir. Local coca farmer who’s got a strong “grass roots” movement here. He’s buddying up with Chavez and Castro, highly anti-American rhetoric, ends his speeches with "Death to the Yankees". He sort of fashions himself as your “Worst Nightmare”.
President: “Moreno, huh? Never heard of him.”
Ambassador: “Mr. Morales, sir. At any rate sir, you had asked about shoulder fired missiles earlier. It turns out that Bolivia has around 30 Chinese made HN-5 missiles.”
President: “HN-what?”
Military Advisor: “Col Bates here, Sir. Those’d be HN-5s! Cheap Chinese knock-offs of the even cheaper SA-7 Grail. They’re antiques. Couldn’t even come close to our fighters – or anyone else’s for that matter.”
Ambassador: “The point is sir, that they could be used against a civilian airliner.”
Military Advisor: “Sir, I doubt that. The Bolivians tried test firing them twice and they both went belly-up. Either the missiles are way too old and neglected, or the testers ust didn’t know how to use them. My guess is both.”
Ambassador: “Nevertheless, they’ve got about thirty of them. The Iranians or Al Qaeda might actually be able to get one to work.”
President: “Options?”
Ambassador: “The current administration knows that the missiles are worthless. We can get them deactivated. Might cost a bit, but I’m certain we can.”
President: “Sounds like the way to go. Do it. … Moreno, huh? Whatever. Castro’s welcome to him.”
-------
The point is, why wouldn't the US move to get rid of the missiles before Mr. Morales took office. He was clearly hostile and it was in no-one's interest for him to have them.
Nice post Norman
A lot of reader's might not be aware that being in charge on an warehouse is a very sought after "pega" within the Bolivian Army...why? Because the person in charge can sell whatever is in there for personal profit. That is how the groups MRTKL and others obtained their weapons ironically.
What Jim should point out and highlight in this article is the cowardice of the MAS people regarding the people they choose to go after.
Rodrigues, and the Central Bank personnel they are trying to bring/brought to court are people that have actually worked for the benefit of the country and have not made a fortune.
But if you look at the big fishes, such as the Valles, Pradas, Landivars, Paredes, Paz Zamoras, Morales (MNR guy not Evo) they are still in possesion of their riches and enjoy fresh air. MAS hasn't done a thing about them. Methinks is because they either don't have the balls or they have been brought up.
what, would you expect MAS to have confiscated their riches? fucking A if they do bring justice to sons of bitches like the above listed (I agree with that) then he is a little dictator following Hugo's orders. and if he doesn't, then he is a hypocrite.
the point is that Rodriguez and his men didn't have the balls to simply say no, these are our fucking missiles. of course they are measly missiles and the Bolivian army is measly. but Norman's inner monologue presents exactly the reason why the missiles should have been safeguarded: fucking dignity. and at the end norman you can't escape the fact that the U.S. knew a government was about to be elected that has some dignity.
i apologize for the fucks. i don't think it adds to any argument and I know it will offend some people. but thats just how I felt like saying it.
I can't say that I fully understand where you're coming from on this. I don't see the dignity in this government. I see the most openly racist government I've known in my lifetime; it's just that it is racist in favor of the indigenous and somehow that's okay. Party loyalty and ancestry count much more than actually being qualified for a position.
Well, Mr. Rodriguez should not have given up his day job. He was in no way qualified to lead a country, even in a transition. That the Morales government is going after him with such venom amazes me. He was essentially their man. Of course, if he done his primary job, (defending the constitution and the constitutional succession), Vaca Diez would have been president and it would have been his problem. There's irony for you.
I think there is a general agreement that with the legalization of Marijuana, all of our problems would go away.
I used to believe that... I used to smoke a lotta weed too. problem is the people fucking up our world are drunk on Power, not even alcohol.
lets separate everything related to MAS government from the missile issue. is there any way to justify a country's military giving away its armament to another power? isn't that a big whopping paradox? unless we believe in the ultimate benevolence of Mr. President in defending the "free world". in that case... screw elections. Bush presidente.. de todos!!! don't be stupid, globalization is a fact, FTAA is the only way, guey.
i'd rather puke, bro
Dear Jim,
In your post you write:
...the administration feared might somehow fall into the hands of "terrorists."
I find it strange that you flippantly place the word terrorists in quotes. I suppose you might mean to imply that there is no such thing as terrorists. (As when one refers to "Santa Claus").
But reading your post as charitably as possible, I assume that your odd use of quotes was meant to imply that the American government wants to keep the missiles out of the hands of enemies, but that the enemies are not terrorists.
In that case, it STILL makes perfect sense that the American government would want to get rid of the missiles (as Norman has made clear.) And in any event, I see nothing from the AP story to make a reasonable person beleive that a responsible government should ignore the possibility of the missiles falling into the hands of terrorists (that is, the kind of terrorists without quotes, the kind that cut off human heads with relish).
Best,
PR
Right, I am sure that The Democracy Center must be pro-terrorist because it used quote marks. In fact I think that is the official code for being pro-terrorist, quote marks.
Or perhaps, is it possible that the US government likes to include under the lable "terrorist" (sorry, I had to use quote marks there) anyone it doesn't like?
Nah, that would never happen, would it?
Will the goofy projections on this comments page never cease?
Of course it makes sense, and is not a surprise, that the U.S. wanted to and did take away Bolivia's defense missiles, especially before an anticipated democratic election outcome the US finds undesirable. That does not mean it isn't an outrage, or that Bolivia ought not be offended and see it as a threat. It is disturbing to me to see how UNdisturbing this is to people. Has US hegemony and the war on terrorism really trumped national sovereignty elsewhere so totally that we just assume the US will/should take arms away from poor, tiny countries (and buying them from corrupt military men under chaos-entwined interim governments does, I think, consitute taking them away) just because their people overwhelmingly support a political candidate who opposes neoliberal economics and the nastiest aspects of the US "war on drugs?"
Let's consider the US' doctrine of pre-emption, coupled with its language about the threat posed by Iran. Now let's imagine that Bush and Cheney are both indicted (pick a reason) at the same time that the next few men in line for Constitutional succession are also under investigation or indictment for other matters (not as hard to imagine as one might wish). Let's imagine all this happens just months before the 2008 elections, and the Democratic candidate, who has not renounced the preemption doctrine, is leading in the polls. A relatively unknown Republican takes over for the last few months of the term. After the Democrat takes office, we find out that Iran bought and destroyed a fleet of our fighter jets during the interim administration. How many Americans do you think would respond by saying, "Well of COURSE they did! They felt legitimately threatened, and besides we've got other fighters, and they destroyed the jets so they pose no threat now. What's the big deal?" And do you think the Democrats wouldn't attack the Republicans over it?
I realize my example sounds absurd. But actually, I can't think of a reason why it would be more absurd than what happened in Bolivia, except that "the US is different from Bolivia" and "Iran is different than the US." But does that matter?
Marco Esquandolis-----
A been known to have any spike.....
Mon?
Dear Dan,
You make some intelligent points and I think your analogy is effective.
But I think you draw the wrong conclusions from your analogy. I do indeed think that the natural reaction in the U.S. would be, "Well, of course Iran would destroy our jets if given the chance!" And likewise I think the brunt of the ire would land on the corrupt and incompetent interim leader - and appropriately so.
So if by outrage you mean that Bolivians should be offended and outraged that corrupt officials are selling their own country's defense arms for personal gain, then I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Best,
PR
A few more quick points in response to Dan.
Nobody really thinks that national sovereignty is inviolate anymore, do they? The horrors of the 20th century pretty much brought everyone around to the idea that interference of one country with another is often justified, right?(Think Rwanda, for instance.)
Now admittedly it is a very hard question as to when and in what cases interference is appropriate in the global war on terror. And the U.S. buying antique missiles from corrupt Bolivian officials is hardly comparable to Rwanda. But it is still a difficult and interesting case to judge.
My point is only that I think it is a far cry from being a clear case of evil U.S. hegemony and certainly not a question that can be resolved simply by appealing to national sovereignty.
Nevertheless, that so many Americans (like you, Dan & Jim) are nervous about the U.S. interfering in the affairs of other nations is probably a good thing. It is just more evidence that the U.S. is a good and decent nation, as it has always been and will hopefully continue to be as our leaders attempt to make wise decisions that balance respect for others' national sovereignty with U.S. national defense and humanitarian considerations.
Best,
PR
I must protest the common (sometimes sincere) citing of dissenting voices as proof of a nation's (i.e. the U.S.'s) goodness. How often do government warmakers respond to cries of "No unjust war in my name!" by concerned citizens with the dismissive, "their freedom to express that opinion is precisely the right our soldiers are protecting in this war!"
To employ the equally hackneyed device of comparison to the Third Reich as an excercise in carrying a given logic to its extreme: do you think the existence of the Resistance in WWII made the Nazi's, with their popular support, a more good and decent regime?
US popular opinion and applied US foreign policy have long been wildly divergent. Do not make the mistake of equating whom Americans elect with what American's actually think about how global issues ought to be handled. Polling actually suggests pretty consistently that Americans are much more reasonable, progressive, and (in my opinion) good than is the actual policy of our government, in matters both international and domestic.
This does lead to big questions about legitimacy of democratic governments, the role and failures of civic engagement, etc. But it also suggests that, to the extent that it is the State that makes decisions regarding others' national sovereignty, etc., we can and must distinguish between the "U.S." that is that state actor, and the "U.S." that is "Americans" like many of us here. My concern as a citizen has no bearing on the merits of the U.S. State's position in the world.
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