Back from One Balkans, Home to Another
bal·kan·ized: to break up (as a region or group) into smaller and often hostile units.Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
I have found myself to have a new secret power. I can now recite the major headlines in any given Bolivian daily newspaper without even reading it.
Governors and Morales in New Battle
More Protests as Inflation Soars.
Morales Criticizes U.S.
U.S. Criticizes Morales
None of this is because I am clairvoyant. 'Polarization' and 'Bolivian politics' have become so synonymous now that if you look in a dictionary for one of those terms it tells you to see the other. Having just spent two weeks working in the Balkans (Kosovo and Montenegro) I can't help but be struck by the comparison. There the era is 'post-conflict' and new governments are trying to put things back together. Here the era is 'a-new-conflict-a-day' and those leading seem pretty intent on pulling things apart.
So, in the interest of provoking more spirited debate on the topic, here are some reflections and analysis about the Balkanization of Bolivia.
Means and Ends
Every now and then, though less of late, you hear political or social leaders clamor about the importance of the 'rule of law.' It is a principle that has become almost quaint in Bolivia. Politicians and movements both left and right have made it clear that 'the law' in Bolivia is something roughly akin to stopping on a red light in Cochabamba – a thing that is advisory only.
Let's begin, in fairness, with the left. In the days when Evo and many of his current allies were on the outside, the law was always something that needed to flex in response to bigger social demands. Road blockades, destruction of public buildings, the shutdown of cities and other tactics were always considered acceptable acts when needed to get the attention of governments. The strategic principles were clear – find the spaces of power and occupy them and make the nation ungovernable until demands were met or the government fell.
And today, the right and regional autonomy movements inspired and led by the right cheerily imitate those same strategies and tactics. Find the spaces of power and occupy them. Make the nation ungovernable until demands are met or the government falls.
Using ends to justify means is nothing new in politics, but it has basically become the rule in Bolivia, including by the political right.
Take the autonomy votes in Santa Cruz and elsewhere. Is it legitimate to hold a vote to take a formal public pulse on the topic? Yes indeed, legitimate and legal and a great tactic if you plan on winning big. But can a region unilaterally renegotiate fundamental issues in the regional/national distribution of authority? Well, now that wouldn’t be legal. Last night a taxi driver and I came up with this metaphor. What if, after we agreed that I'd pay 15 Bolivianos to go from Cochabamba to Tiquipaya, I announced on arrival that 5 Bs. seemed a fairer price and paid that? Neither does the Bolivian Constitution allow for such sudden one-sided changes.
Or take the Governors of Santa Cruz, Tarija, Pando, Ben and Cochabamba, who suddenly announced a week ago that they weren't going to participate in the August 10 'revocatoria' vote approved by the Congress and President – a law actually initiated by the opposition to Morales. It is a bit hard to take pious declarations about respect for law from a group of politicians who then say, 'Okay, but that law we don't like, so screw it.' The political aerobatics by Cochabamba's Governor, Manfred Reyes Villa are especially breathtaking. Less than two months ago he was bragging about his original call for such a vote and declaring on CNN, "How many lives and confrontations would have been avoided if in that moment we had approved the law?" Now he just wants to ignore it. Slick.
The sad thing is that in a political environment in which ends mean so much and means mean so little, there isn't even a very focused debate on what those ends ought to be.
What's at Stake?
It is not however, particularly difficult to spot what are the genuine public policy issues that reside beneath the political power plays at hand right now in Bolivia. The fundamental questions that divide the nation remain:
Land Reform: What land would the government give to the landless? How would the land in private hands be compensated for? Who would be eligible to receive the land and in exchange for what commitments? What support would the government provide them to help them make that land productive?
Gas and Oil: How will the soaring profits from Bolivia's gas and oil – courtesy of both soaring global prices and increased taxes on foreign companies – be divided between the regions where it sits and the regions where it does not sit? What role should the Bolivian state have in exploration, production and sale and how can it do that effectively?
Autonomy: What political authority – in the fields of justice, education, resource management, and others – will be reserved for indigenous communities, regional governments, and local governments?
The Presidency: Can Bolivians, if they choose to do so, re-elect their President and Vice-President and if so, how many times?
These are some of the concrete issues at the heart of the divide and none have been raised into full public debate. All have been obscured by a dangerous stew of political power plays, over-heated rhetoric and overt racism. As recipes for Balkanization go, it’s a pretty good one.
To be clear, the divide in Bolivian politics existed long before the current actors took the stage. Bolivia is a nation deeply divided by race and class. But both Morales and his opponents have done a masterful job of making the divide new and different.
Opponents of Morales, for reasons racial, economic, political, regional, and strategic, made a clear choice early on to treat his election as a heavy train headed down the tracks straight at them and tried to throw everything in front of that train they could to stop it. Their July 2006 election campaign (for the Constituent Assembly) tried the "Hugo Chavez! Hugo Chavez!" approach and failed miserably. They then scored a good political victory with the demand for a 2/3 vote on everything before that Assembly.
But the regional autonomy campaigns and demand to move the national capital to Sucre, that was pure political genius.
Where once Evo faced an opposition that one could genuinely classify as the old elite, he now faced one that was regional, taking with it even many of the lower income parts of the rebel departments. If I am a woman selling gum on a street corner in Santa Cruz, who do I like better – the President who wants to take a full cut of gas and oil revenue for El Alto or the regional leaders who say keep it here. Regional identity beat class identity. And Evo helped his opponents mightily, with confrontational appeals to his base that pushed a lot of people in the middle into the greetings arms of the opposition.
Y Ahora, Que?
What does this mean? Okay, here's a guess. Political stalemate for two and a half years. Regions will seize autonomy where they can (by blocking land reform, for example), knowing that Morales will not send in the Army to stop them. They won't be able to extend autonomy where it would take national cooperation, for example getting a bigger share of gas revenue.
And then the opposition will run out a long political clock.
Absent a new Constitution – which seems a more and more distant possibility with each passing month – Bolivia will head into new national elections in December of 2010 in which Evo can not be a candidate and in which he has groomed no successor with a chance. And then once again out of power, it will be the left's turn to show once again that it still knows how to make Bolivia ungovernable from the other side.
Now, I want to admit a couple of caveats to this analysis:
First, my more revolutionary friends will quickly dismiss this as a 'reformist' analysis, which it is. Many prefer to see what Evo represents as a revolution, a movement to pull the existing political and social order up by its roots and start anew, with equality replacing privilege as the national organizing principle. In many parts of the nation, the altiplano in particular, that may well be true. But most of Evo's actions are hardly revolutionary and amidst the Bolivians I interact with, be it my neighbors in the cow fields or the vendors in the street, what I hear about isn't revolution but dreams of lower-priced food, a little political stability for a while, and a shot at a living income.
Second, at the risk of channeling former U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in Bolivia it isn't the 'known unknowns' that will trip you up. It's the 'unknown unknowns.' Just when you think that the course of events in Bolivia seems to have a discernable pattern to it, some event turns that pattern on its head – the people kick out Bechtel, or Evo wins, or people start killing each other on the streets of Cochabamba.
Let's hope the surprises ahead here are good ones.
91 Comments:
FIRST WERE THE COUPS
THEN WERE THE COALITIONS
NOW ARE THE ILLEGAL autonomies
LATER WILL BE PARAMILITARIES
PRIMERO ERAN LOS GOLPES
DESPUES ERAN LAS COALICIONES
AHORA SON las autonomías ILEGALES
MÁS TARDE SERÁN PARAMILITARIES
MORIR ANTES QUE ESCLAVOS VIVIR
Very sloppy analysis Jim. It is extremely premature to declare the new constitute a dead project. The Media Luna's "Autonomy" has zero legal or institutional weight, short of a secessionist civil war- not likely. The real question is how many opposition Prefects will be recalled August 10th?
It is extremely premature to declare the new constitute a dead project. The Media Luna's "Autonomy" has zero legal or institutional weight, short of a secessionist civil war- not likely. The real question is how many opposition Prefects will be recalled August 10th?
I think Jim is recognising the new power bases that are here to stay. Legal or not, the autonomy movements are here to stay and Bolivia is now a federalist country. The legalities will follow the events on the ground.
Can appreciate why this is so frustrating for many left-leaning posters on this board. As one poster not so subtlety pointed out, the power behind the autonomy movement are the people who brought us the coups and the coalitions. They are not democrats, they have no interest in social justice, their movement is one of power, greed and often times racism. But events on the ground have smothered this, this is now a regionalist movement. A political masterstroke that has outflanked Evo, and he has shown he has not the temperament to manage the situation pragmatically.
However, I still come down on Evo's side if I had to pick one. As Jim has pointed out the utter hypocrisy of the department leaders as regards the rule of law. The recall election has to be the forum to lay the chips down. Then the issues Jim talks about in his post should be settled on that basis.
It would be much easier to swallow the need for these compromises, if they weren't brought about from the very worst of Bolivia. The racists, the ignorant, the greedy and the corrupt. There are very few still playing for social justice and a fair Bolivia. The future looks very, very bleak.
Evo taking a break going back to his cato with his quinceanhera and charango would be a good thing.
The problem is that no credible alternative exists. Linera lives in an alternative reality where the bay of pig-on-the-titicaca and the Soviet Empire expansion to LatAm could happen anytime. Quintana, Banzer's protegee, is a worse fascist than the "civicos" and Rada, Choquehuanca and Patana are closer to the Three Stooges than to being statesmen.
Unfortunately, there is no rational alternative on the right. As said before, they ALL have dirty hands, dirty minds, and don't give a damn or represent anything remotely close to good ol' liberal capitalistic values.
ps. I'm sh*cked, sh*cked that there is no comment from Jim regarding the almost-half-in-el-alto 880,000 new voters for 8/10...or since you don't like numbers...27% increase. I knew those indians where horny bastards ;)
Jim:
Will you take a stand on the perverse percentages that Evo and the prefects need to obtain? 50%+1?
Jim, thanks for referencing the article, but you distorted what Manfred said.
He says that a recall referendum is a good idea but doing it this way is like playing soccer were the prefects side has a huge goal and evo has a tiny goal. Then he goes on and says that he challenged evo to a recall back in january which would have been good for the country.
Clearly from what he said, when he made the challenge, he didnt think the game would be played so unfairly. You made it sound like Manfred thought this referendum was a good idea.
Jim:
Will you take a stand on the perverse percentages that Evo and the prefects need to obtain? 50%+1?
...this takes missing the point to the grandest of scales. This is the law in Bolivia, it was the law before the recall was agreed upon and it remains the law.
Any complaints because of poor polls is pure political backtracking and should be labeled what it is. Hypocrisy.
Bowsie:
You're an intelligent bloke. Where else in the world is an election not 50%+1? It's anti-democratic when the minority decides an election. As Dickens said, "the law is an ass."
gallglass,
The law is certainly kicking you and your fascist buddies in the ass, get used to it. I suspect there is more coming. It's what happens when democratic forces capture the power of the State from criminals.
Somebody said it earlier, when it comes to laws, Bolivia is full of hypocrits.
What about how the CPE was approved? No one read it, it was in a military garrison, etc. etc.
Or how about roadblocks? or burning public institutions...all illegal, except when they are convenient.
Regardless...only a idiot would say that it's ok for Evo to stay even if 53.9% vote against him, while others have to go, even though they might have 70% votes in favor. That is just WRONG.
But it is Podemos fault, why the hell would they pass a law, w/o reading the fine print?? $$$$$$$? venezuelan $$$$$$$?!?!?!
Why am I a fascist for wanting 50%+1? Isn't that democracy? I don't understand...please enlighten me.
you are a fascist because you are questioning Evo and this obviously means that you support UJC.
You are right Jim. Prefect Manfred is “slick”. This former captain- a graduate of the School of the Americas-, who served under the narco-dictator Luis Garcia Mesa, is a turncoat and an opportunist just like his father, General Armando Reyes Villa. Below is an excerpt describing this “illustrious” duo:
• Perdón, olvidaba el periodista mencionar que el cadete Reyes Villa tenía 21 añitos cuando volvió de su curso en Panamá (curso básico de armas de combate, sería lo que fue a estudiar el niño). Nacido el 19 de abril de 1955, el hoy prefecto tuvo el dudoso privilegio de ir muy joven a estudiar algo en la Escuela de las Américas en plena dictadura de Hugo Banzer Suárez… ¿tendría que ver para ello el que su padre fuera alto oficial del ejército durante esos años? Difícil saberlo…
• Y hablando nuevamente del papá de Manfred, también se nos pasaba mencionar que el general Armando Reyes Villa era el Comandante en Jefe de las Fuerzas Armadas durante el gobierno democrático de la señora Lydia Gueiler, y desde ese cargo participó del golpe de García Meza… el propio ex dictador recuerda que fue el general Reyes Villa quien presentó a Gueiler una carta de renuncia que debería firmar (lo cuenta en Testimonios de un dictador, un libro de entrevistas redactado por Tomás Molina Céspedes).
• En concordancia con la versión del ex dictador, y coincidiendo ambos en que Armando Reyes Villa fue un traidor, la ex presidenta Gueiler relata en la biografía que de ella redactó Alfonso Crespo: “Reyes Villa me demostró siempre, de palabra, una absoluta fidelidad y yo nunca imaginé que a terminar en un acto de traición” ( Lydia. Una mujer en la historia, p. 178).
• El padre de Manfred Reyes Villa recibió como premio a su traición a la democracia la cartera de defensa en el primer gabinete de Luis García Meza… ¿eso liga al ex capitán y actual prefecto a ese gobierno, más allá de que su papá fuera su jefe? Difícil saberlo, tal vez la foto que mencionamos al principio fuera una casualidad y el joven militar de mostachos rectos había ido a visitar a su papi al palacio de gobierno cuando lo sorprendieron caminando detrás del presidente de facto… difícil saberlo.
http://www.ubnoticias.org/es/article/retrato-de-un-militar-reciclado
The new prefect of Chuquisaca, Sabina de Cuellar was chosen by five “dedasos” from “slick” and his gang. In my opinion, she will be thrown to the UCJ guard once those 5 Mugabes achieve their aims.
Franco
Jim, read your own words, “In the days when Evo and many of his current allies were on the outside, the law was always something that needed to flex in response to bigger social demands. Road blockades, destruction of public buildings, the shutdown of cities and other tactics were always considered acceptable acts when needed to get the attention of governments. The strategic principles were clear – find the spaces of power and occupy them and make the nation ungovernable until demands were met or the government fell.” “Using ends to justify means is nothing new in politics, but it has basically become the rule in Bolivia, including by the political right.”
And now read your organization’s web page and tell us the above is not your core value, tell us isn’t how you dream democracy is build from the bottom up. You are part of the problem, a big part, and now that the supposedly right wing; hell, to the side of Evo anybody looks in the right side of politics, is following your same advice; by force and not by choice; you want to renegade from your deeds. Coward!!!
With a little bit of luck, and Bolivian common sense, no matter how much the maSSist cheat; this August we are going to accelerate Evo’s departure from a presidency that never belonged to him.
Bowsie:
You're an intelligent bloke. Where else in the world is an election not 50%+1? It's anti-democratic when the minority decides an election. As Dickens said, "the law is an ass."
The United States presidential election is not 50%+1. It's electoral college. So that's one for starters.
The idea of having a recall in your laws protects democracies. The recall law in Bolivia was written to favour popular incumbents. Their idea of protecting democracy was to have the original mandate overturned. To suggest this is somehow undemocratic is to be parochial about different systems of government.
Regardless of whether this law is fair or not, this is not the time to debate it. That time was when the law was passed. What is not acceptable are these crook politicians who were for the recall when they thought it would suit them, and are now against it when they feel they will lose by it. That's not democratic.
And as has been pointed out time and time again, these same people have never had an interest in democracy in any form. Now that the indigenous are fully involved in the democratic apparatus these people are doing anything they can to oppose it. So lets call a spade a spade here - these opponents are pure opportunists. If they don't like Bolivian law they can move to another country.
And now read your organization’s web page and tell us the above is not your core value, tell us isn’t how you dream democracy is build from the bottom up.
The autonomy movements are bottom down political movements. Look at who started them, oligarchs. Nothing grass roots about that. I don't think Jim's idea of democracy are movements run by people who made their money from the drugs trade and land grabbing.
It takes an Evo to thank Chavez for the release of Mrs. Betancourt.
The autonomy movement was started by the indigenous peoples from El Chaco and hijacked not only the "oligarchs" and "neoliberals" (racial slurs if you ask me,) but also by Evo and the MAS. He was for it, before we was against it.
bowsie must be a newcomer.
oops.
he was for it (as a presidential candidate) before HE was against it (as president per Linera's counsel)
Funny comment by Jim:
"Well, now that wouldn’t be legal. Last night a taxi driver and I came up with this metaphor. What if, after we agreed that I'd pay 15 Bolivianos to go from Cochabamba to Tiquipaya, I announced on arrival that 5 Bs. seemed a fairer price and paid that? Neither does the Bolivian Constitution allow for such sudden one-sided changes."
So now suddenly Jim cares what the Bolivian Constitution says? The analogy he refers to is exactly what Cuchi-Cuchi worshiper Morales used as he "nationalized" the gas and oil fields, or him promising to provide Argentina with a certain amount of gas while knowing he can't deliver it, or applauding a drunk mob and extorted serfs to burn the US embassy, just to mention a few.
Violating Bolivia's constitution has been Morales' way of life: be it as a cocalero leader causing death and destruction throughout the nation; or as a mediocre trombone and soccer player causing lesions in eyes and ears.
Cuchi-Cuchi worshiper is in a world of trouble and he has no one other to blame than himself. Not even monolito lover will be able to jive his way out of this one.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
The autonomy movement was started by the indigenous peoples from El Chaco and hijacked not only the "oligarchs" and "neoliberals" (racial slurs if you ask me,) but also by Evo and the MAS. He was for it, before we was against it.
It's the hijacking that I'm talking about. Without the "oligarchs" and "neoliberals" these movements would not have gathered the same potency.
But yeah, now they are beyond that and their mandate must be accepted, and dealt with.
bowsie must be a newcomer.
Of course he must. Seeing as he disagrees with you. But with your straw man argument above firmly in hand, you appear a veritable veteran of logic.
Anyone who has observe Bolivia for a couple of years can tell you that: "The autonomy movements are bottom down political movements. Look at who started them, oligarchs." is a complete false statement.
That is what betrays you as a casual observer. The fact that you agree with me makes you intelligent
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That is what betrays you as a casual observer. The fact that you agree with me makes you intelligent
Well your ego aside, I'm well aware of the autonomous movements pre-oligarch state, but that was never the point I was making. I was talking about the autonomy movement as we know it today, since the prefects were first elected. That is a pure power play - not grass roots. And, since when we constantly reference the autonomous movements in this manner on this board, I felt no reason to qualify that statement. I would suggest you reserve your hubris for a more convincing "GOTCHA" moment.
I find it strange you would assume someone's interest in Bolivian politics based on a statement - without any idea of their biography. I assure you that while I'm no Carlos Mesa, I have an idea of contemporary Bolivian politics.
Declaring somebody to be ignorant of a subject because of a poor assumption based on a single statement, is simply not cricket.
Nice try, attempting to spin MAS' string of crack-ups.
Departmental autonomy did not start out as opposition to Evo. And in many ways Evo's lies and false promises are to blame for the confrontation over autonomy.
In 2005 MAS cut what has been called the "East-West Pact" with pro-autonomy forces, passing the Referendum Law adding the referendum to the constitutional assembly election, and if it passed mandating the Assembly implement autonomy.
Evo gave lip service to departmental autonomy in order to win votes in the East.
As soon as they got power MAS have done everything possible to derail autonomy. They killed discussions in the assembly, then refused to dialogue with the prefects and committees cynically saying that was the assembly's job.
And when the officialists locked out the opposition and steamrolled through their "constitution", they put in 9 separate forms of so-called "autonomy" meant to deprive the departments of any real authority.
All this in the context of an extremely agressive and polarizing attitude by the part of the government. Playing on class resentment, tradituional Bolivian xenophobia, and an Aymaro-centric discourse, have turned off not only those in the east, but also people in the highlands.
Boli-Nica says: "Nice try, attempting to spin MAS' string of crack-ups.
Departmental autonomy did not start out as opposition to Evo."
I don't think anyone is saying that... although some of the stuff being written here is a bit ambiguous from both sides.
A lot of people are upset that the genuine autonomy movements have been, as one poster put it, hijacked by those who want to keep hold of their power, wealth and social status. That has muddied the waters of the genuine autonomy movements. I think some of the posters above should be specific about which parts of the autonomous movements they mean.
Aaah the old standard narrative of the exploited and excluded indigenous versus the exclusionary and exploitative oligarchs..
People would be better served by looking at how many "government changes" there have been in Bolivian history. You can find it in the Guinness Book of World Records.
With that many changes it is hard to be an "oligarchy" in the classic sense, since it implies control and/or heavy influence in government, by a reduceed number of people + descendants for significant periods of the history of a country. Oligarchs have come and gone in Bolivia. Conversely, mobilized Bolivians indigenous peoples have had significant roles in certain "regime changes" including quite ironically - fighting for Federalism and of moving the capital (Sucre to La Paz)
..which brings up the issue of...
Autonomy.... the above example showing there are 100 plus years of Federalist/autonomous movements and discussion in Bolivian history. Or for that matter looking at a map showing both the terrain and the distance between La Paz and every regional capital. Its about 1000 Sta Cruz to La Paz.
Explains a lot.
Aaah the old standard narrative of the exploited and excluded indigenous versus the exclusionary and exploitative oligarchs.
Oh yes what a cliché! When will those indigenous pipe down about being crushed underfoot by a powerful ethnic elite?
Get over it already! We're so bored of your utter poverty and lack of representation over the past 150 years.
Congratulations Colombia! Congratulations Mr. Uribe! It is great when democracy and peace prevail over totalitarism and communism. A great day indeed for the people of Colombia and latin america who embrace true democratic values. Democracy is alive and kicking!
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Truly a great time for Colombia, Uribe, and the military. They deserve all the accolades and gratitude that are pouring around the world.
The way the FARC was duped made them laughingstock of guerrillas around the world. It's time for these murderers and narcoprotectors to release the several other hundreds they have in captivity.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Was also delighted to see Ingrid Betancourt rescued from the FARC.
I find it ironic that some on this board are praising the release of someone who ideologically detests their view of the world. She certainly doesn't share their sunny view of the Columbian government. Peace and democracy indeed.
“Cuchi-Cuchi worshiper is in a world of trouble and he has no one other to blame than himself. Not even monolito lover will be able to jive his way out of this one.”
Crooked face, you reek of envy because a Junior High School dropout is doing better than you. Who are your followers? Do you stand for something other than egocentrism? I don’t think so.
Find a new jingle because your jingle about the Croats and Beni show that your blinders are on too tight.
Morales did a better job at handling the Beni floods than the handlers of the Katrina debacle.
Comparing Branco Marincovik to the unfortunate Jewish victims of the Nazis shows a disconnection with reality and common sense.
“Branko Marinkovic, the powerful head of the Civic Committee whose parents migrated to Bolivia from Croatia in the 1950s, is the largest landowner in the country with 300,000 hectares, much of it obtained for pennies or fraudulent maneuvers under past dictatorial and oligarchic governments.9 He also has considerable business investments, including IOL S.A., one of Bolivia’s largest soy and sunflower processing plants. A political ideologue of the autonomy movement, Marinkovic funds and sits on the board of the think tank Fundación Libertad y Democracia that has ties to the Heritage and Cato Foundations.10”
http://nacla.org/node/4803
Franco
P.S. Regarding the Betancourt incident,
The FARC is just another Militia for profit –like the Colombian “army”-. For months now FARC members have been “giving up their arms” in return for cash. And, “my friend”, if you are not able to connect the visit of the presumptive Republican candidate to Colombia with this “victory for Democracy” your blinders have become a part of you and you are beyond repair.
Maybe Jim should just join the FARC, hairy beards and all...
Anonymous 4:45 PM asked : Podemos fault, why the hell would they pass a law, w/o reading the fine print??
Think about it from Podemos's perspective. Evo's got the power now, but like Jim says they can run out the clock on him. But this Autonomy movement is gaining too much momentum! They win in Santa Cruz and are up in other departments. What to do? They will lose their power to appoint cronies if these local elections happen! They have made their living playing one group off the other all these years.
The answer: dredge up that recall bill. The Evo wrote the rules and they are ridiculously favor Morales. Some are bound to loose and weaken the Autonomy movement. Evo eventually looses power, the autonomy movement is weakened enough that they can't get most of their way, and the national party is ready to deal!
"Morales did a better job at handling the Beni floods than the handlers of the Katrina debacle."
I think he rejected american flour in a matter of minutes to latter cross his amrs and let Benianos fend for themselves.
Find it interesting that you denouced supposed ties b/t Cato and FLD. I thought we lived in a free country. Let them work with whomever they want.
After Evo also does check in once in a while with Soros and lets him buy him dinner in NYC. Let us not forget that most of his cabinet either comes from the School of the Americas or other foreign-funded NGOs. But like I said, it is a free country
To my tocayo:
There's no need for me to envy the "Junior High School" dude you're referring to. I can play the trombone better than he does.
Regarding my Katrina "jingle" (whatever that means), you're right: I should change the name to one from a much larger disaster. The US government didn't wait -- as Morales did -- 6 days to declare Katrina a national disaster, so Morales is worthy of even more incompetence.
http://www.eldiario.net/noticias/nt080212/0_01ptd.php
By the way, the Jews murdered by the Nazis were more than "unfortunate." They were a racial group targeted by a cold nationalist demagogue trying to scapegoat them for the ills of his country -- such as Cuchi-Cuchi worshiper here.
Your source NACLA --- which has ample support from ultraleft kooks such as Chomsky and Klein --- is worth as much as the pennies they say Marincovic's bought fraudulently over 50 years ago. I'm sure you'll be able to present evidence proving such "fraud." So, Marincovic a businessman and sits on the board of a think tank that promotes free markets and democracy?
The pig! Off with his head!
And this phrase of Aristotlean wisdom:
"The FARC is just another Militia for profit."
Wow. I'm floored. And I thought they gave to charity all those hundreds of millions of dollars from their drug and kidnapping activities instead of its leaders using it for easy women, booze, and other capitalist luxuries.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
"And, “my friend”, if you are not able to connect the visit of the presumptive Republican candidate to Colombia with this “victory for Democracy” your blinders have become a part of you and you are beyond repair."
So let me get this straight; Uribe could have freed those 15 hostages at any time but waited over five years for just the right US Republican presidential candidate to visit to push the button. Talk about blinders!!!
Uribe drug traffickers #82
Vicente Fox behind El Chino narco
Meza profited from the drug
I see the politics in Bolivia as the card game 21.
Let's remember the game stareted with Carlos Mesa. We have three players
The Government (stressed)
The Right (Confident)
The Separatist (Big Mouth)
First round
The Government A
the law is behind the government
The Right K
autonomy movements a ticket for the oligarchs to return to the political scene (keep 9 depart.. )
The Separatist Q
An opportunity to separated from Bolivia
Second Round
The referendum for Autonomy For Santa Cruz, Beni,and Pando
The Government A,3= 13 or 4
The Right k,5= 15
The Separatist Q,6= 16
THIRD ROUND
CHUQUISACA
The Government A,3,4= 18 or 8
The Right k,5,3= 19
The Separatists Q,6,3= 20
FOUR ROUND
If Potosi calls for a referundun
The Government A,3,4,3= 21, 11
The Right wind k,5,3,A= 20
The Separatist Q,6,3,5= 24
Fifth Round
August 10 Wilfred is out; Cochabamba calls for a Referendum
The Government A,3,4,3= 21, 11
Now is Evo's turn to show his cards and give Autonomy to the 9 departments and work with elements within the right for a new constitution.
The Right k,5,3,A= 20
they are less pressure after the Separatists are out of the game, if they really want to comeback to the political scene; they have to find a solution for what they created.
The Separatists Q,6,3,5= 24
OUT of the game
“There's no need for me to envy the "Junior High School" dude you're referring to. I can play the trombone better than he does.”
You need to move beyond the trombone crooked face. Wash your little hands and experience the real world. Your sense of reality is warped. May I suggest some psychoanalysis? I think you are stuck in one of Freud’s development stages.
The Katrina victims are suffering to this day. Furthermore genius, check out a quote from Scott McClellan, the former White House Press Secretary.
“We spent most of the first week in a state of denial. The tendency to shift responsibility and minimize unpleasant realities is a part of human nature that has to be kept in check. It was not,” he writes. After so many crises, he explains, “we were probably a little numb (“What, another tragedy?”) and perhaps a little complacent (“We’ve been through this before.”)”. He writes that “We took a chance that Katrina would not be as unmanageable, overwhelming or catastrophic as it turned out.”
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/05/28/mcclellan-saw-storm-in-white-house-katrina-strategy/
Marinkovic and Co., the slavers of the captive Guarani people deserve a sentence just like those slavers that were recently convicted in New York. Too bad the Bolivian court system is plagued by incompetence and partisan politics, namely in favor of the oligarchy.
“CENTRAL ISLIP, N.Y. (AP) — A millionaire convicted of helping his wife keep two Indonesian housekeepers as virtual slaves was sentenced Friday to more than three years in prison, ending a trial that shed light on the often little-seen exploitation and abuse of domestic workers.”
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jBr01Uk1hYUWVPqB_-Us4SEM-UBAD91ILMEG0
*************
The bastions of “democracy” Colombia and Mexico, two nations ravaged by internecine struggles for the control of the drug trade, should not be on the tour schedule of any candidate running for the “most powerful office on Earth”.
On the point of the de facto enslavement of Bolivia's Guarani see the link below. It provides context about how profitable it is for people like Marinkovic and even Americans like Norman and the Larsens to perpetuate the harms within the status quo by opposing Evo's attempts to bring social justice.
The video is specific to Guarani workers in the Chaco who live under conditions of servitude through debt bondage and forced work. But, it can be linked to the colonial attitude so in evidence on this blog's comments by those that seek to bring to frutition Goldberg's Kosovo-style plan.
Inter-American Commission on Human Rights investigated Bolivian examples like Ronald and Dustin Larsen's ranch, Alto Parapetí. Like Norman, they defend Costas, UCJ and even belong to the local "Defense Committee" accused of assault and kidnapping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3tU0AbK8ac&NR=1
An autonomous Santa Cruz with leaders such as Marinkovic would be a human rights disaster.
Whatever form autonomy takes for the Media Luna, it cannot take the form where people like Ruben Costas and Marinkovic bring human rights back to the dark ages.
This post has been removed by the author.
Bowsie said...
An autonomous Santa Cruz with leaders such as Marinkovic would be a human rights disaster
Why?
You usually seem reasonable, but apparently you are absolutely rabid against Costas and Marinkovic. Why? Something specific other than that they support autonomy and committed the cardinal sin of being wealthy.
You usually seem reasonable, but apparently you are absolutely rabid against Costas and Marinkovic. Why? Something specific other than that they support autonomy and committed the cardinal sin of being wealthy.
Well it's not ideologically driven I assure you. I've no problem with autonomy as a political goal, but have issues with how it's been framed. I've no problem with wealth, I hope to be wealthy myself some day - but I would not like to gather wealth in the way of Costas and Marinkovic. I certainly resent that.
For Marinkovic, it's his (let's face it, corrupt) land-grabbing from the Guarani, who've suffered more as a people than any group I can think of in Bolivia. Simply an extremely nasty individual. I know some of the guys above accuse him of all sorts without evidence - but he's certainly contributed to the misery of those people.
Costas isn't quite as odious - I just dislike his politics.
ElGrindio: isnt it possible to be for social justice and still be against Evo's policies? As far as I can tell, the choice isn't binary. I'm very pro-social justice but that doesn't mean that I should support a form of de facto apartheid today to correct actual or perceived wrongs of the past.
Bowsie: I still dont see the link between disagreeing with one's politics or how one may/may not have made money at an individual level and a human rights disaster.
Pressed send too fast - the comment above (Anon 1:28) is mine
Bert
"I'm very pro-social justice but that doesn't mean that I should support a form of de facto apartheid today to correct actual or perceived wrongs of the past."
Can you please show me where and when MAS supports a new "apartheid".
Ofcourse there is nothing wrong criticizing Evo or MAS, but such points ought to be based in reality.
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Has anyone else noticed that amidst all the juvenile name calling and "I am the only knower of truth" chest thumping here that it is the spam posts that sometimes seem more coherent?
Oh little boys, please grow up, just a little, please.
Bert and objective readers,
Bert holds himself out to be for "social justice" not unlike how Norman poses as a man-of-faith, Republican marine (an oxymoron since Republicans are the party of torture, constitutional violations, militarism, religious hypocritical sexual predator politicians whose base provides children to serve as pages/sexual objects, and imperialism that murders women, children and the elderly-directly as in Vietnam or indirectly as in Palestine or Iraq).
Bert, why do you act like Norman-who like Bush's use of crisis ("weapons of mass destruction" dirty nuclear bombs any minute) justifies the torture, humiliation and attempted rapes of the humble, defenseless campesinos who came to Sucre to greet and receive ambulances from Evo.
(Bert uses the power of words to mislead this blog's readers.)
Bert, you mask the harms within the status quo when you refer to "perceived wrongs of the past". How is the enslavement of quechuas, aymaras and (ongoing de facto slavery as to) Guaranies something that is wrong only in the head of those who object? How is it only a "perceived wrong" when it is universally morally repugnant to decent humans? You act as if what has been to Bolivia's indigenous people in the past and which continues today by those like Norman seek to exploit poor undereducated Bolivians (as in the case of Dursten Larsen of Montana who is accused by human rights groups of enslavement and child labor on his ranch "Alto Parapeti"; Note: as of yet no charges have been alleged against Norman on the record other than his confession that six years ago he abandoned his little daughter to survive in the US as a fatherless child when he came to Bolivia to profiteer from Bolivians who were sucked into serving his business interests.)
Bush, Cheney and Norman have justified torturing and humiliating foreign peoples in their homelands by their practice of crisis-capitalism whereby evil acts are justified because of a false dilemma, generally of their own making.
Whereas Marinkovic and Costas falsely accuse democratically elected Evo of being a murderous dictator, you falsely claim Evo practices apartheid.
One should be pragmatic, flexible and innovative with a global view of problems in order to solve for the harms instead of accepting either or solution sets. But, in the instant case. There exists no alternate plan to uneducated Evo's trial and error governance that seeks social justice while being one of the world's only governments to achieve a superavit.
If social justice is the highest value in the reader's decision making criteria, whose plan should they conclude passes a cost/benefit analysis or comparative benefit analysis?
Evo's, yours, or the status quo's elites who supported centralism when it enriched them and now seek greater riches by transferring to themselves-as autonomias-the economic power Evo marshalled for Bolivia to administer towards achieving social justice.
Oh wait, you have no plan to propose that leads to social justice. Your de facto plan achieves chaos by sowing negative propaganda that leads only to Goldberg's successful balkanization of Bolivia and Marinkovic's fulfilling his promise to Santa Cruz mothers that he will only lead their children to shed their blood "responsibly".
Social justice that protects the most vulnerable of Bolivians from Republicans and their schemes for strategic moves on the part of the US to have a military presence in South America for securing oil or natural resources in the future for the transnationals and the Normans and Durstens of this world :
1) If not Evo, then who?
2) If not now, then when?
Grindio
the US has enoungh military force in the embassy alone to take wussies like you.
Thanks for the imperialist chest pumping, Anon 5.30. You might as well, your empire's days are numbered.
Anon 5:30PM,
Your threat must be from within the embassy to based on insider knowledge of how much is "enough military force in the embassy". Bring it on. :-)
PS, "wussies", moi? Under what standard, do you deem one as being of the "wussies" when they stand up for democracy and all that is loved universally about the USA to take on the current dark forces in the embassy who have such military force. PSS I choose as my weapons: the rule of law; including and not limited to Section 1983 of the US Code; The Alien Torts Claim Act.
My battlefied choice: Los Aneles US Federal District Court in the Central District of California as a choice of forum
I forgot my video link, a Brazilian journalist's first hand accounting of: the support he saw for Evo; corruption shown by the anti-Evo prefect and the use of shock troops from Santa Cruz to victimize and intimidate the citizens of Tarija:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pXygAA71w
Bowsie,
Thanks for your last reply. Based on it I did some research and did find plenty that implicate Marincovic for fraudulently obtaining land, to include those from the presidency who said they have prof. I could not find any of the proof and of course Marincovic says that in fact he obtained what land he holds legally. So I'm left with a he-said, she-said at this point.
If we take it to an extreme though, we could say that any land in the hands of non-indigenous was obtained unfairly as at its root it comes down to right of conquest. So at some point we have to ask where do we draw the line? Moreover, where do you think Morales would like to draw it?
As an aside, your manner of presenting your arguments and point of view is a thoroughly rereshing break from what seems to have become the standard.
I'm curious El Grindio what EXACTLY do you do in Federal Court?
Norman,
The proposed constitution draws the line at 5 to 10 thousand hectares.
I doubt Marincovic is happy with that figure. But that's what all this autonomy, media luna bullshit is about anyways- land. It's actually all quite simple. Remove those 400 latifundista families from the equation and all this conflict and political intrigue would disappear.
This post has been removed by the author.
Anon, there's no doubt that that is a large part of the motivation, but the autonomy move (new and old) predates the draft constitution. Moreover, I would think that smart businessmen could find ways to break up and distribute or incorporate land exceeding the 5 or 10 thousand hectares.
The conflict and division in the country is not just those families. Morales chooses to act as the leader of a particular sector of Bolivian society rather than as President of and for all Bolivians. While I know plenty of Bolivians who see hope in Morales and in the things he has been able to accomplish, I see plenty of others who are genuinely concerned about the course their country is taking and fear the erosion of their rights as citizens. It isn't so much that they are listening to Costas or Marincovic; they're listening to what Morales and Linera say and it frightens them.
There are also those on this blog who belittle and denigrate anyone who questions Morales or his motives. They arrange them into neat groupings and label them racist or hate-mongers. That's a dangerous ignorance that I don't recommend joining in. Nothing in this matter is as black and white as many (on both sides) would have us think.
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Grindio, your outdated, paranoid and false rhetoric is extremely boring. You are the maximum representation of socialist hypocrisy. You blast the US left and right but , oh surprise, you comfortably live there! Be consistent, LIVE and suffer in one of socialist "paradises" you so vehemently defend.
لَدَ عَمِّينَادَابَ. وَعَمِّينَادَابُ وَلَدَ نَحْشُونَ. وَنَحْشُونُ وَلَدَ سَلْمُونَ. 5وَسَلْمُونُ وَلَدَ بُوعَزَ مِنْ
الأصحَاحُ الأَوَّلُ
1كِتَابُ مِيلاَدِ يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ ابْنِ دَاوُدَ ابْنِ إِبْراهِيمَ: 2إِبْراهِيمُ وَلَدَ إِسْحاقَ. وَإِسْحاقُ وَلَدَ يَعْقُوبَ. وَيَعْقُوبُ وَلَدَ يَهُوذَا وَإِخْوَتَهُ. 3وَيَهُوذَا وَلَدَ فَارِصَ وَزَارَحَ مِنْ ثَامَارَ. وَفَارِصُ وَلَدَ حَصْرُونَ. وَحَصْرُونُ وَلَدَ أَرَامَ. 4وَأَرَامُ وَ رَاحَابَ. وَبُوعَزُ وَلَدَ عُوبِيدَ مِنْ رَاعُوثَ. وَعُوبِيدُ وَلَدَ يَسَّى. 6وَيَسَّى وَلَدَ دَاوُدَ الْمَلِكَ. وَدَاوُدُ الْمَلِكُ وَلَدَ سُلَيْمَانَ مِنَ الَّتِي لأُورِيَّا. 7وَسُلَيْمَانُ وَلَدَ رَحَبْعَامَ. وَرَحَبْعَامُ وَلَدَ أَبِيَّا. وَأَبِيَّا وَلَدَ آسَا. 8وَآسَا وَلَدَ يَهُوشَافَاطَ. وَيَهُوشَافَاطُ وَلَدَ يُورَامَ. وَيُورَامُ وَلَدَ عُزِّيَّا. 9وَعُزِّيَّا وَلَدَ يُوثَامَ. وَيُوثَامُ وَلَدَ أَحَازَ. وَأَحَازُ وَلَدَ حِزْقِيَّا. 10وَحِزْقِيَّا وَلَدَ مَنَسَّى. وَمَنَسَّى وَلَدَ آمُونَ. وَآمُونُ وَلَدَ يُوشِيَّا. 11وَيُوشِيَّا وَلَدَ يَكُنْيَا وَإِخْوَتَهُ عِنْدَ سَبْيِ بَابِلَ. 12وَبَعْدَ سَبْيِ بَابِلَ يَكُنْيَا وَلَدَ شَأَلْتِئِيلَ. وَشَأَلْتِئِيلُ وَلَدَ زَرُبَّابِلَ. 13وَزَرُبَّابِلُ وَلَدَ أَبِيهُودَ. وَأَبِيهُودُ وَلَدَ أَلِيَاقِيمَ. وَأَلِيَاقِيمُ وَلَدَ عَازُورَ. 14وَعَازُورُ وَلَدَ صَادُوقَ. وَصَادُوقُ وَلَدَ أَخِيمَ. وَأَخِيمُ وَلَدَ أَلِيُودَ. 15وَأَلِيُودُ وَلَدَ أَلِيعَازَرَ. وَأَلِيعَازَرُ وَلَدَ مَتَّانَ. وَمَتَّانُ وَلَدَ يَعْقُوبَ. 16وَيَعْقُوبُ وَلَدَ يُوسُفَ رَجُلَ مَرْيَمَ الَّتِي وُلِدَ مِنْهَا يَسُوعُ الَّذِي يُدْعَى الْمَسِيحَ. 17فَجَمِيعُ الأَجْيَالِ مِنْ إِبْراهِيمَ إِلَى دَاوُدَ أَرْبَعَةَ عَشَرَ جِيلاً، وَمِنْ دَاوُدَ إِلَى سَبْيِ بَابِلَ أَرْبَعَةَ عَشَرَ جِيلاً، وَمِنْ سَبْيِ بَابِلَ إِلَى الْمَسِيحِ أَرْبَعَةَ عَشَرَ جِيلاً.
18أَمَّا وِلاَدَةُ يَسُوعَ الْمَسِيحِ فَكَانَتْ هكَذَا: لَمَّا كَانَتْ مَرْيَمُ أُمُّهُ مَخْطُوبَةً لِيُوسُفَ، قَبْلَ أَنْ يَجْتَمِعَا، وُجِدَتْ حُبْلَى مِنَ الرُّوحِ الْقُدُسِ. 19فَيُوسُفُ رَجُلُهَا إِذْ كَانَ بَارًّا، وَلَمْ يَشَأْ أَنْ يُشْهِرَهَا، أَرَادَ تَخْلِيَتَهَا سِرًّا. 20وَلكِنْ فِيمَا هُوَ مُتَفَكِّرٌ فِي هذِهِ الأُمُورِ، إِذَا مَلاَكُ الرَّبِّ قَدْ ظَهَرَ لَهُ فِي حُلْمٍ قَائِلاً:«يَا يُوسُفُ ابْنَ دَاوُدَ، لاَ تَخَفْ أَنْ تَأْخُذَ مَرْيَمَ امْرَأَتَكَ. لأَنَّ الَّذِي حُبِلَ بِهِ فِيهَا هُوَ مِنَ الرُّوحِ الْقُدُسِ. 21فَسَتَلِدُ ابْنًا وَتَدْعُو اسْمَهُ يَسُوعَ. لأَنَّهُ يُخَلِّصُ شَعْبَهُ مِنْ خَطَايَاهُمْ». 22وَهذَا كُلُّهُ كَانَ لِكَيْ يَتِمَّ مَا قِيلَ مِنَ الرَّبِّ بِالنَّبِيِّ الْقَائِلِ: 23«هُوَذَا الْعَذْرَاءُ تَحْبَلُ وَتَلِدُ ابْنًا، وَيَدْعُونَ اسْمَهُ عِمَّانُوئِيلَ» الَّذِي تَفْسِيرُهُ: اَللهُ مَعَنَا.
24فَلَمَّا اسْتَيْقَظَ يُوسُفُ مِنَ النَّوْمِ فَعَلَ كَمَا أَمَرَهُ مَلاَكُ الرَّبِّ، وَأَخَذَ امْرَأَتَهُ. 25وَلَمْ يَعْرِفْهَا حَتَّى وَلَدَتِ ابْنَهَا الْبِكْرَ. وَدَعَا اسْمَهُ يَسُوعَ.
Anon 8:55AM: Your ad hominem shows you lack my love for the US Constitution’s structure and laws and my devotion to the rights and ideals set forth therein and codified by the sacrifices of fellow patriots. Why such love? Because: A) mine and my naturalized citizen parents' sweat, blood and particularly the tears of my mother comprised some of our part of the bargain in the American social contract; B) so that the American Dream can be something tangible and NOT require being asleep to achieve it. Nor do you share my lack of love for the Bush government and their evil acts which includes and is not limited to the machinations of the current evil US mission in Bolivia.
Your low self-esteem need to chill 1st Amendment speech compels you to arise from beneath pond scum wherein reside the opinions of haters of Bolivian-American patriots. You regurgitate that “USA, love-it-or-leave-it” catchphrase, designed to provide cover for Watergate and other Republican crimes by and through Nixon. Neither they nor you were or are decent human beings.
Readers: These ugly, twisted, obscenely hypocritical coments on this blog show a want to be modernity’s equivalent of plantation owners of the old South (having their way with their male and female slaves while denying their humanity). They see in Santa Cruz something worth saving and worth shedding the blood of Bolivians for: a modern fascist state wherein they can dehumanize and profit from the misery of others like Dursten Larsen's de facto Guaranie slaves. Their motivations have been shown to include-but are not limited to-dreams of being economically empowered enough to successfully chase vacuous, media luna sex objects (magnificas or their wannabes) like Marinkovic and Dursten Larsen. See http://antoinettelazarte.blogspot.com/2007/12/la-odiosa-flavia-y-sus-fechorias.html
At best, this blog’s Ugly Americans' comments show they are not smart enough to critically think and form an informed understanding about how the US system threw them under life’s express train long ago. In the US, they are owned by the US oligarchs who own and/or control the media (whose control of news and what they see and hear tells them what to buy, believe, and think) the financial institutions, the most valuable land, the energy companies and big business. Those elites own (by the billions invested in lobbying) politicians and the judiciary (See Gore v. Bush, Supreme Court Opinion).
Democrat and Republican politicians serve only to appear to give voters freedom of choice. Seemingly willfully ignorant, good honest hard working Americans keep re-electing millionaire politicians that do not care about them or their problems nor would they take direction from their desire for change. Instead what happens is Bush-Cheny meet secretly-under color of law, claiming executive privlege to govern secretley-with the real owners of the US to be told what they want. Case in point: Big Oil meeting with Cheney; Invading and occupying Iraq; and Big Oil that was kicked out of Iraq by Saddam years ago being granted "no-bid" contracts to control Iraq's oil.
Now that gas is $5 a gallon, the dollar dropped over 40%, the trade deficit doubled, national debt doubled to almost TEN TRILLION ( took 230 something years to be 4.5 trillion whereas Bush reach 10 in less than 8 years by no bid contracts, invading Iraq and malfeasance) instead of enjoying Bush's America, many Republicans-like Norman-have established a beachhead in Santa Cruz.
Apparently they are smart enough not to remain in the US to be obedient workers and want to be oligarchs, instead of putting the US back on the correct path.
El Grindio remains in the US because of the work he has taken on. That work does not exclude fighting for justice, restoration of constitutional balance of power by checks and balances and seeking to holding accountable those who transgressed against the US Constitution framer’s intent. That also does not mean-in his spare time-he cannot also fight evil in Bolivia as seen in this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpMbWAohxK8&NR=1
Anon 8:55, I find that it's easier to just skip over his comments. He's on summer break right now and apparently has more time on his hands to write the stuff than I have to read it.
Since high school, my life is an "Endless Summer". I surf; you don't; you'll never understand.
"time to write stuff" is found thanks to: my laptops; my phones, RIM's Blackberry & Apple's iPhone (and agile thumbs); and a debate background that provided a skill set which allows me to think on my feet, often while waiting for something or another.
Time to respond to Norman's typical say nothing of substance comments: negligible on a laptop; usually under a couple of minutes by cellphone.
Very true, Norman. Very easy to skip.
Quality over quantity, always.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
According to El Deber, in its May 16th edition, a well known “political satirist” and “reporter” received what is known as “el premio libertad” (the Liberty Prize) awarded by the ANP, because he, according to former Bolivian vice president Luis Ossio Sanjinés, “represents freedom of expression in Bolivia”. Read the latest example of the racist filled “satire” the ANP (La Asociación de Prensa de Bolivia) is encouragi