Bolivian Perspectives: Two Views from Sucre

Readers:

As Bolivia heads into national elections this Sunday, and an uncertain political future thereafter, we begin the process of offering readers a series of “Bolivian Perspectives” on current events here. Lost too often in the political rhetoric of each side in the polarized situation at hand are the more nuanced views that step outside the box of the predictable.

We begin with two perspectives, very different ones, from one of the nation’s most embattled cities, Sucre. Last week we traveled to Sucre and include here two interviews from that trip.

The first is our conversation with Chuquisaca’s newly elected state Governor, Sabina Cuellar. Cuellar is an indigenous woman, the single mother of five children who most recently worked as a used clothing seller. She was also a MAS delegate to the Constituent Assembly who broke with MAS and President Evo Morales over the issue of making Sucre Bolivia’s national capital. In May she handily defeated the MAS candidate to become the region’s governor.

Second we speak to a young progressive activist in Sucre, Ronald B. Céspedes. He serves as Executive Secretary of DIVERSENCIA, a Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender organization and is also a member of Indymedia Sucre.

The views expresed here are not our own, but both perspectives offer a valuable insight into the opinions now shaping Bolivia's future. We’ll have more interviews in the series in the days and weeks ahead.

Jim Shultz

Democracy Center Interview with Chuquisaca Governor, Sabina Cuellar

[Interview by Jim Shultz, transcription and translation by Aldo Orellana, Lily Whitesell and Yi-Ching Hwang.]

DC: What would you tell people abroad about what is happening in Bolivia? What is your view on the Bolivian process at this moment?

Well, in my opinion, in this moment in Bolivia, we are fighting among ourselves. Previously the governments didn’t make us fight, but now the current administration is provoking conflict between the city and the rural areas (campo).

DC: According to you, what is the most basic topic in this conflict? Why is there a lot of fighting going on in Bolivia? What are the different visions confronting each other in Bolivia? For example, as the governor, what dreams to you have for Chuquisaca?

Well, the reason why we are now fighting among us Bolivians is because the government does not respect the Political Constitution of the State, does not respect laws, it wants to govern like a dictatorship.

The government does not respect professionals, does not respect business people. It wants to nationalize everything, it wants to take away land and that is not fair. So, if [the government] wants to subjugate us like this, who is not going to react? Imagine if they want to take away my house...I am going to react, true?

It is because of that reason there exists division in Bolivia. MAS thinks it is owner of everything, we don’t even have the right to complain, we don’t even have the right to speak...If you are not Masista (part of the MAS party) and you don’t campaign for MAS, immediately they hit you, they want to take your house, your land away from you, and that is not fair because we are in a democracy, we have all the rights to express ourselves and that is what the government is not allowing for.

Now...from where are they pulling out this referendum recall if it is not in the Constitution? MAS wants to impose the recall because if the governors are revoked they are going to have to leave the prefectures. Then the government will not call for elections because they themselves want to choose as they wish the new provincial authorities.

And since there are no social organizations in the cities, it will be the rural organizations that will choose as they wish the new governors and that is illegal and disrespectful. It could provoke new fights again.

The government treats everyone [who are against it] like oligarchy...if you are Masista you have to subjugate to the government, but if we are not Masistas we are completely maltreated and discriminated. Those are the causes of the current fight and the division among Bolivians.

Also I want to clarify that since August 15th of last year, the day that the “capitalidad” topic was removed from the Constituent Assembly debate, Chuquisaca has been feeling maltreated. That August 15 violated the rules of the debates of the Constituent Assembly.

In Calancha (A military ground where in November of 2007 the Assembly approved by majority the new constitution, where confrontations between civilians and the police left three dead and dozens injured) when they approved the constitutional text by majority, we had not participated. Only a few people have participated. And what did the government do to achieve their objective? They sent us militaries, snipers, and red ponchos to kill us...that is not fair.

Now...of those events there have been three people dead and 400 injured, some now without hands, without ears, without eyes. Regarding the injured the government doesn’t even remember, doesn’t even give the feeling of mourning for the dead...on the contrary, they have parties dancing while we are crying.

To cap it all, they still want to come to Sucre...and that is why the people have reacted, because regarding what happened at Calancha [the government] never showed an interest in investigating...logical, an investigation doesn’t suit them.

Now...the events that took place on May 24th, have been prepared by them [the government]. We didn’t participate. However, the government immediately ordered an investigation, in which there is even an accusation already. Hence what is it that is happening? ... unfortunately it is not uncalled for, even I would react. We have suffered, we have been maltreated, “gassed,” there have been deaths...it hurts me.

But on May 24th, no one received maltreatment, the only thing that they did to those campesinos (people from rural areas/countryside) was took off their shirts and made them go around in the plaza...but they didn’t maltreat them. But the government in Sucre has killed. And who remembers that? No one. And that is why it hurts me, and that is why I believe that we are living in a time of dictatorship.

On the other hand, the family basket has risen a lot, and who suffers? The wealthy? No. The wealthy do not suffer...the poor are the ones who suffer. And that is very serious for me because the poor people are crying of hunger in the countryside.

Finally to conclude...the government should govern for all Bolivians, rich and poor. That is what we want, we don’t want fights, we don’t want confrontations.

DC: Do you believe that Bolivia is going to divide? Or do you believe that Bolivia will find the road to unity?

If the government reconciles with the whole of Bolivia, the country can arrive at a unity. The government should reconcile, it should unite us the rich and the poor, because among the rich and the poor we shouldn’t fight. The government should recognize its errors, it is in this way that Bolivia could recuperate.

DC: Are there any important messages that you would like to communicate with people abroad, especially those that are observing Bolivia in this moment? What would like to tell the foreign community, so that they could better understand the reality in Bolivia?

I would say....hmmm.... we need support, we need help. We need better professionals in order to unite us among the rich and the poor. Personal and political interests within Bolivia want to make themselves owners of the country. It is important to share decisions. We need orientation.

DC: For you what does it mean that a woman of your history, a woman of the countryside, a mother of a family, is taking on this role of governor, what does it mean from your perspective?

Well, I am not a professional, I come from the countryside...I have an experience of suffering. But the people have recognized my loyalty to my province (departamento), I have not betrayed and because of that the people have confided in who I am.

I value very much the professionals. They have supported me, they have confided in me. And thus I also value them very much. I don’t think we should fight between the rich and the poor because we are all Bolivians. I feel tranquil and think that one should work for all.


Democracy Center Interview with Ronald B. Céspedes, Executive Secretary of DIVERSENCIA

[Interview by Aldo Orellana and Leny Olivera, transcription and translation by Aldo Orellana, Lily Whitesell and Yi-Ching Hwang.]

DC: What is your analysis of the August 10 recall election?

Well, some people have said that the recall election won’t solve anything, and that may be true. But politically, the recall election can restore and take up the cause of the political process in Bolivia again.

The referendum invites even MAS to reflection about the mistakes that are harming this process. I think that at this moment, we cannot cover up all the mistakes that the government makes. Instead, if this recall election will help us take up the cause of the process of change, the people should be given the initiative to move forward with these deep reforms to the Bolivian state again.

Regarding stability, it is clear that there is certain instability. The lack of governability in the Bolivian state is also obvious. But there is also something in which I have to be quite clear… and it is that these conflicts that are occurring are provoked intentionally. I see it in the following way: it’s like a plot to destabilize the current administration.

At this time, the way in which the Central Obrera [the national workers’ union] and others are taking up pressure tactics against the government, from my point of view, is not doing anything more than reinforcing the right’s discourse in Bolivia. For other social movements and social organizations, we are growing little by little in Bolivia, and I think that this situation invites us to critical reflection about how [we can have] processes of advocacy towards the state [that are]… much more creative and novel. Also, we should rethink many issues that up until now, even within the left, are taboo topics, like the issue of the environment, or sexuality [sexual orientation].

In Sucre, this symbolic rupture between rural and urban needs to be resolved, a rupture which has existed because of the explicit and visible interests of powerful groups like the Interinstitutional Committee, the mayor’s office, etc. In this sense, in Sucre the recall election is very important, because it will help many people who at this time are being restricted in their freedom of expression, to feel and understand that in Bolivia, there is a national sentiment shown for change.

DC: What is your point of view about freedom of expression in Sucre?

After the events of November 2007 here in Sucre, and everything that happened on May 24, the intimidation that has occurred is notorious, and has had a relative success in a large part of the population.

The freedom of expression is restricted. You cannot express yourself freely in the streets because they intimidate you, they persecute you, they take photos of you, they publicly discredit you, they graffiti your walls, there is censure, and they even beat you. There is a very intense intimidation. But if our human rights are violated, we should not be silent. If someone gets beaten, attacked, it must be denounced, we must shout it, it must be said publicly, denounced to the international press.

The Federation of Campesinos [small farmers] of Chuquisaca defends the freedom of expression in the countryside. But when they come to the city they have to change out of their skirts and take off their hats so they won’t be attacked. This is very worrisome, there is a very well-known persecution. Our most basic rights are being violated.

On the other hand, if someone is a dissident in Sucre, they are [labeled] MASista. This is currently the discourse that is most common in Sucre on the part of the Interinstitutional Committee. It’s completely simplistic, reductionist, and mediocre. It’s the Interinstitucional Committee’s inability to debate different political positions. Here if you don’t have the same opinion [as them], they call you a MASista.

I believe that this situation is a process for the groups on the left. We should talk and do public activities to demand our freedom of expression. Now it is as though there were people living underground as though it were the Middle Ages, we should begin to leave the catacombs to call things by their proper name – with actions, pronouncements, denouncements, etc.

DC: What do you think of the new prefectural administration which has just begun?

Prefect [the title for departmental, or regional, governors in Bolivia] Cuellar is erasing all the vestiges of MAS within the prefecture of Chuquisaca. I know about real cases of people who testify that the Prefect tells them, “You can keep working [here] only by renouncing MAS [affiliation].” Some continue because they need the work or because simply, their political convictions are not very important to them.

The fight that exists between Prefect Cuellar and the Federation of Campesinos of Chuquisaca is well-known. One example of it is Sabina Cuellar’s choosing of subprefects without the consent or consensus of the rural areas. [Prefect Cuellar won elections in only one of the ten provinces of Chuquisaca. In the other nine provinces where MAS won, the campesinos have named subprefects, invoking indigenous autonomy. This has brought conflicts with Prefect Cuellar, since by law, only the Prefect has the authority to name subprefects.]

Now, the Prefect says that she will not be responsible for the arrival of the President in Sucre. [Evo Morales, in fact, will not be going to Sucre to celebrate Bolivia’s Independence Day, August 6.] Behind that I think there is an intimidating attitude, I say again, to attack the presence of President Evo Morales in Sucre.

That is worrisome because we hope that there will not be another May 24, because it would be much more aggressive. Sadly the Falange is growing. [The Socialist Bolivian Falange is the extreme right in Bolivia. It had disappeared for the last decade but has revived since the blatant racist acts in Sucre on May 24 and in late 2007.] Little by little they recruit people… and they have made themselves into a group for conflict for the Prefect and Interinstitutional Committee.

I also know people who at this time, after having supported the capitalía issue, want to work for the Prefect. This makes you notice and question up to what point and for what reasons it really is much easier for people to give up being on the left and switch to being on the right. [Alluding to Cuellar and others that work for her who used to be MAS supporters]

DC: What is the Falange Socialista Boliviana?

The Falange has a orthodox and fundamentalist vision which violates the dignity of the human being and of everything that surrounds him or her. It has a very exacerbated form of nationalism which under the three words, “God, Country, and Home” hides a series of manifestations which violate respect for human diversity. For now the Falange in Sucre is a conflict group, like the Unión Juvenil Cruceñista (Santa Cruz Youth League) in Santa Cruz, which commits many atrocities. But [the Falange] wants to recover its political party status.

DC: Anything else you’d like to add?

So it’s important to understand that this process of change, this Bolivian process, is irreversible and it will move forward with or without Evo Morales. That’s where the reflection is for the left. It’s that we need to be able to articulate ourselves in this process of change that does not belong to MAS, but rather to all of us.