Dancing in Urkupiña 2008
Readers:It may come as a surprise to some who don't live here that not every event in Bolivia has to do with politics, and not every breath includes mention of Evo Morales. With Sunday's elections still just a few days old, attention here in the Cochabamba Valley has turned to something else entirely – Urkupiña, the festival of the Virgin (that Virgin) in nearby Quillacollo. Today the streets of that nearby small town are filled with thousands of dancers – a flowing river of detailed costumes and well-practiced movements that takes nearly 12 hours to pass from beginning to end.
And this year The Democracy Center is well-represented. Aldo Orellana and Leny Olivera danced both yesterday in La Entrada Auctoctono (the more traditional dances from the countryside) and today as well in the main event. And along with them today is Yi-Ching Hwang, born in Taiwan, migrated to the U.S. and now bringing her best moves to the streets of Quillacollo. We asked her to share her experiences in preparation for today's event here on the Blog, and here it is.
For those interested in more photos and explanations of what this festival is about, here is a link to our slide show and report a few years back.
Now, some might ask, "Jim, why aren't you on the streets of Quillacollo today, wearing a devil's head or perhaps a Caporales mini-skirt?" To that I reply – Wielding size 13 sneakers and a definitely 'gringo' appearance, I don't need to do anything to make even more a spectacle of myself in public here. Besides, someone had to work today. But stay tuned for Carnival. That nun costume might just be back.
Feliz Urkupiña a tod@s!
Jim Shultz
Dancing in Urkupiña 2008
by Yi-Ching Hwang
We all had to wear black underwear, not thongs, not tights, but black underwear. And one by one they checked us.
“Lift up your skirt and show it to me,” ordered our Sol Chaqueño San Simón fraternity sister, Natalí. I swear, she is not always this mean, it must have been the pressure of convite.
Around two weeks before the official Urkupiña Fiesta here in Quillacollo, a convite is held where all participating groups are invited to demonstrate their excellence. During convite we rehearsed the Urkupiña route, familiarizing ourselves with the bumpy pavement and sometimes windy, snake-like, narrow, cobblestone streets. It is a time especially for less experienced dancers to get their feet wet with street, parade dancing. Though not the official procession, lots of Quillacollo residents set out their chairs, lean over their balcony, and cheer the dancers on.
A couple of years ago, as a Peace Corps volunteer living two hours outside of Cochabamba, I participated in many city parades as a spectator. The last time I was in Urkupiña, I got lost in the wild, drunken crowd, hit on the head by a flying empty water bottle, and vowed never to come back to this crazy festival.
But here I am, chatting with the shoe repairman about the most strategic way to put rubber padding on the bottom of my black high heals to prevent the least damage to my delicate behind-the-computer-all-day feet. Urkupiña is only a day away, I have spent weeks and hours perfecting all those turns, choreography, and the best way to sway and swerve the long skirt to tactically show and hide my black underwear. Despite the lingering doubt about whether I can make it through 6 hours of dancing combating the different terrain and street size (not to mention potentially fending off drunkards), I can’t wait!
Chacarera is a dance from the Chaco region that is composed of bits of Paraguay, northern Argentina, and South Eastern Bolivia. The name is said to originate from the word chacarero, which means he who works in the chacra or farm. In Bolivia, the dance is characterized by mischievousness, vivacity and an air of ‘flirtiness.’ Danced in partners, the chacarera music is a mixture of bass drums, violin, and guitar.
Today in Cochabamba there are two main groups from whom one can learn this lovely dance. I joined the fraternity Sol Chaqueño San Simón out of almost sheer fate. Since May, on my way home from work, I would pass by groups practicing at a nearby plaza. Crisp night air, music and lively moves cutting through the otherwise stillness of the neighborhood, the plaza turned into an open stage sheltered by giant Jacarandá trees. It was too much to resist. Memories of high school and college dancing came floating up, playing with my imagination. Yi-Ching flaring about in the plaza with new Bolivian friends, learning new and cool moves?! The rest is history.
Sol Chaqueño San Simón is an open fraternity, all welcoming and encompassing. Our dancers include 7, 8 year old kids up until forty, fifty year olds. Physical stamina is the only limit. Anyone with a smile, strong dedication, and commitment can join. In July on a sunny Saturday afternoon, a few weeks after I started practicing, I was officially baptized into the fraternity. As a Taiwanese coming from a non-baptizing religious background (nor ever having joined a sorority/fraternity in college), for the first time in my life, I picked a godmother (my dance instructor), was drizzled with the plaza fountain water, and welcomed into the arms of the fraternity.
What followed was not just an afternoon of photos, reggeton music, and lollypops to suck on, but a beginning of a bondage that goes beyond learning the steps of this 8-part dance. Chacarera practice opened a door where we snuck in bits and pieces of cultural exchange, and sometimes even brief conversations of the most recent political topics.
“bichi, piching, iching...what is your name again?”
I must have been called a dozen names. But mixed in with the Y que venga la segunda Chacarera music, they all sounded sweet to me.
What are you doing here? From so far away? How did you decide to dance Chacarera? Can you sing that Taiwanese song again so I record it on my cell phone? It’s so preeetty!
Having spent half of my youth in Taiwan and half in the States, and then two years in rural Bolivia trying to do some development work but mostly perfecting my potato peeling skills and frustrated with my poor Quechua speaking ability, there have been days when I cringed and cried feeling like a black sheep not fitting in anywhere.
But these days, despite the supposedly division in Bolivia and what the news may broadcast as social and racial tension, what I’ve lived is a corner of Bolivia where there is curiosity of differences and going beyond that, a genuine acceptance. My Sol Chaqueño brothers and sisters come from Cochabamba, Santa Cruz, wealthy Cala Cala households, almost rural Vinto and Punata (towns 40 minutes to an hour outside of Cochabamba). For two hours everyday, what we do is work on our dancing but also on building harmonious relationships and keeping an eye out for each other.
When one lives intimately in a place, and daily is engrossed in the everyday lives of Bolivians, one sees beyond the news headlines of violence and racial conflicts. Sometimes amid political upheaval, we forget that Bolivia is more than just the recent referendum recall or the divisions over autonomy. As important as those topics may be, dancing in Sol Chaqueño San Simón provided a balance for me. Not only am I here in Bolivia learning about citizen power and taking democracy to the streets, I am also here building friendships with Bolivians and enriching myself with a dance that’s more than 150 years old.
Photo credit: Lynn Nesselbush
Labels: Bolivia-culture

The Democracy Center, based in Cochabamba Bolivia and San Francisco California, works globally to advance human rights through a combination of investigation and reporting, training citizens in the art of public advocacy, and organizing international citizen campaigns. If you like the Blog, consider becoming a subscriber to The Democracy Center's free e-newsletter by sending us an email at 
58 Comments:
Thank you for feeling bolivian. If the dum croats and germans would adopt your attitude; Bolivia would not have those KKK problems now.
I forgot it takes humans to feel compasion, solidarity and empaty. they are far from it.
Wish I were there.
Yi-Ching Hwang,,,
You obviously 'get' Bolivia.
And you write about your experiences there,,,so tellingly--not only of Bolivian culture, but of yourself. I can't help but admire your writing and your style.
I hope to move to Cbba in the future, and perhaps I'll get the chance to see you dance some time--perhaps in the Oruro or Cbba Carnival parades. Who knows?
You have discovered some of the most wonderful people on the planet, and by being open and honest and sincere and respecting their customs and values, you have obviously earned their respect and friendship.
You might be Bolivian already.
I look forward to more of your writing, and urge you to get out of the office more, so you can experience Bolivia richly, and then describe it to the world.
Regards,,,John
Yi,
Thanks for providing respite from the acrimony of the never-ending political comments between this blog's political partisans.
Speaking of dancing and fancy footwork, have you seen the newest of the Rocky-type movies which I think is called Brocky II? Here's the trailer: http://www.youtube.com/user/BARACKYTWO
Putin knows the great truth about the lefty West: it will pour a half-million people into the street to protest the US removing a homicidal dictator like Hussein to foster democracy, but not a half-dozen to object to Russia attempting to remove a democratic government to foster dictatorship. Absolute standards of morality are "passé"; for lefties grandstanding about Abu Ghraib brings some sort of psychological recompense for being a blessed Westerner. Objecting to Russian aggression either is futile or gives no kick to a sense of self-loathing.
Such is the moral bankruptcy of lefties...
;-(
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina
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I showed up in Bolivia early August of 2002, about the time you wrote the time you wrote the article you linked to. I attended mass close to the hotel where I was staying, and about two weeks after I arrived, there was a large grouping of traditionally dressed dancers outside the church. I don't think they attended the mass, but afterwards they began dancing in procession along the third ring with a small figurine of the Virgin Mary. It had to be this festival. It struck me as beautiful, though misguided. I'd never heard the legend before, so thanks for the link. I'll have to look more into it. Yi-Ching's description and your account reinforce my initial impression; astonishingly beautiful, but having little to do with Catholic belief. Throughout scripture Mary directed people to her Son. Chipping out a rock, carrying it home, and then bringing it back for some material reward sounds like pure paganism.
Not coincidentally, the actual Catholic feast for 15 August is the Feast of the Assumption where Roman Catholics believe that Mary "having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory." That is to say that in Christian hope we can one day do the same.
If anyone can direct me to more info on the Lady of Urkupiña, I'd love to hear it. It looks like a brilliant celebration of Bolivian heritage and thoroughly enjoyable. I just don’t see the Christian message in it. Hope the dancing went well Yi-Ching. Good article.
The whole thing has become a big commercial feast. The whole route up the hill is nothing but a big flea market where you can buy cheap chinese trinkets, food, alcohol, and may be with luck a religious icon.
On the hill itself, the ever-capitalistic minded natives sell all sort of good luck services to ensure that the rocks you bring back will give all the material goods you desire...heaven forbid you find our own rock or bring your own mistura, you have to buy them from the natives, lest they lay some communitary justice on your ass. The year I was at, there was a big upheaval because the church did not want all the selling in the hill...but there was nothing a single priest could do against protestors led by a bunch bullies.
The party itself, I found it to be very unpleasant. I'm just not down with getting drunk 'til I can't walk to honor the virgin.
I find it very curious that at the heartland of Evo country, where support for his socialist model is strongest, and where you are likely to be stoned to death for mentioning the invisible hand, you have so many people asking for material things so furiously.
Anon 11:34AM,
Could you please provide us cites for the evidence that: 1) Quillacollo is the "heartland of Evo country where support for his socialist model is strongest" instead of the Chapare; and
2) that-regularly-one is "stoned to death for mentioning the invisible hand."
I won't bother to thank you beforehand since you "righties" never provide evidence for your wild claims.
Nevertheless, your subtext is correct. In contrast to the debauchery within Evo's "heartland" of support, the debauchery of camba elites when they are "saltando" with their fraternidades during carnival is so much closer to being of the God you worship. Perhaps, it is because they do not need to desperately seek divine intervention to meet their survival needs or wants. The camba elites' de facto slaves (Guarani and camba) tending their cattle and/or tilling their land ensure their economic well being. Therefore, there is no need to ask for anything. . . except autonomia (to perpetuate the status quo).
The Urkupiña festival has always been commercial, 11:34. Always. (Not that I find anything wrong with that)
It's been forever since the Catholic community and others have protested the festival's thousands of vendors, the hundreds of improvised chicherias and their respective drunks, and the oh so few spots where one can relieve oneself. (Watch out where you step while walking on certain streets and sidewalks)
Although a few years ago the tiny bridge crossing the "creek/river" towards the temple was thankfully widened considerably to allow an easier crossing, the thing that never changes is the fetid stink due to human and animal waste coming from the creek and riverbed below. It's even worse when it's hot, dry, and windy.
That being said, going to Urkupiña is a fun rite of passage for those teenagers who want to initiate themselves in alcohol and promiscuity. The dancing (especially from Caporales San Simon) is OK, but gets boring after a while.
Although around a quarter of a million of tourists are expected during the festival every year, Quillacollo has to do very much more to make it a true religious pilgrimage rather than an uncomfortable (and stinky) curiosity from an exotic land.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales Katrina
The Urkupiña festival has always been commercial, 11:34. Always. (Not that I find anything wrong with that)
It's been forever since the Catholic community and others have protested the festival's thousands of vendors, the hundreds of improvised chicherias and their respective drunks, and the oh so few spots where one can relieve oneself. (Watch out where you step while walking on certain streets and sidewalks)
Although a few years ago the tiny bridge crossing the "creek/river" towards the temple was thankfully widened considerably to allow an easier crossing, the thing that never changes is the fetid stink due to human and animal waste coming from the creek and riverbed below. It's even worse when it's hot, dry, and windy.
That being said, going to Urkupiña is a fun rite of passage for those teenagers who want to initiate themselves in alcohol and promiscuity. The dancing (especially from Caporales San Simon) is OK, but gets boring after a while.
Although around a quarter of a million of tourists are expected during the festival every year, Quillacollo has to do very much more to make it a true religious pilgrimage rather than an uncomfortable (and stinky) curiosity from an exotic land.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales Katrina
The difference betweent he cambas getting shitfaced in carnaval is that they don't do it "out of devotion for the virgin" they do it because they are jackasses.
Gran Poder and this festival people actually try to force feed you alcohol with the excuse that you are paying homage.
And please don't make yourself look like a retard by implying that the fact I decry drinking in the highlands makes me a "croat-loving-oligarch-with-garani-slaves." Speaking of which, aren't you the one living in a gated community, surrounded by marble statues? Are those illegal immigrants taking care of your grass "slaves"? When you make your fancy dinner reservations, aren't the busboys your "slaves"? I really doubt that make sure they are getting their due benefits before you take advantage of their cheap labor.
Please take your time to visit Bolivia, you are truly talking like an idiot regarding how tolerant people have become in Bolivia. Earlier this year, I was pickpocketed in the Mercado Rodriguez, caught the guy, but guess what happened? I almost got lynched because I was white. People did not care that I had been pickpocket, they only cared that I was this "oligarch" abusing a native...step outside your gated community and get a clue
Shall we all take a minute to be astonsihed at why people like those above who seem to hate Bolivia so much bother to move here?
Hmmm, if Urkupina is so bad then why are there 200,000 people cramming the streets there?
Perpaps it is time for bumper stickers reading:
"Bolivia, Love it or Leave It"
The Croats are Morales Pickles
Katrina is Beni's Aunt
hmmm
Not drinking 'til I puke = Hating Bolivia??
There are a few things I dislike about Bolivia: the sexism, racism, corruption and yes the alcoholism. Im sure anon 3:58 likes to blame the US Embassy for everything wrong with Bolivia, but probably doesn't realize that the country would be in far better shape if people simply stopped drinking, became less corruptable, and yes started showing up to appointments on time.
Background as to why Evo is probably silent on Georgia:
Bush gazed into Putin's eyes and claimed to look into his soul and liked what he saw.
Present: Bush backs a despot. That despot brutalized his people, invaded "freedom-loving/functionally-independent" South Osettia, killing civilians and Russian peacekeepers. Russia, expecting the attack, retaliated and invaded from its readied jumping points.
In effect, Georgia surrendered to Russia which proved the balance of power had shifted because Bush's invasion of Afghanistan (proper as to searching for Osama) and invasion/occupation of Iraq (improper as to searching for control of oil) eviscerated the US military's ability to respond in another theatre.
Bush eviscerated US military readiness as to operating in another theatre on the basis that Bush has no strategic ground forces in reserve and was unable to defend Georgia or intervene on the Russian periphery.
The Georgians are Bush's Cubans
Osettia is Bush's Katrina
lovely article. thanks, Yi-Ching.
Religion might be the opium of the masses in the rest of the world...but in Bolivia it's carnaval, convites, and desfiles. Wait until the hangover passes, we'll be back to the same old.
In the meanwhile, Y will not have the full experience unless she eats a Viva Vinto.
NO WAY
you're still in Bolivia?
Hey Yi-Ching, I met you at a party in Cocha a while back, we danced all night you were a good dancer back then. I told you you'd make a great Bolivian dancer, glad you took my advice.
Update your youtube account already, it's been a while, we want some cool videos of your performance. ttyl
Never ceases to amaze me how pompous posers like Grindio champion himself as a leftists hero of the poor, while at the same time bragging about his wealth, his professional surf career (not), his "exquisite" taste in fine Merlot, his marble floors, his prostitutes, and his deep Visa account. Unfortunately, Grindio is the utter epitome of a plastic fake, manufactured in you guessed it, Hollywood. Those that have the most exotic gaze of foreign are the most corrupt of all. How easy is it to be the hero wearing a mask?
Re: Locojhon. Nice sentiment, but I personally don't think it's possible to 'become' a Bolivian, even if someone goes to live there for 50 years (sorry Jim).
I think a lot of the sense of being Bolivian is in the common struggle against not having enough money, the closed doors offered to Bolivians who try to get work that matches their ambitions, the difficulties of living with the political scene, the lack of alternatives. A foreigner (like me, and a lot of us on this forum) who goes into Bolivia always has the option of being able to leave if it all gets too difficult, and often has the luxury of first-world money to fall back on. A bonafide Bolivian does not have a choice.
I have my doubts that the “Bolivians” working at the Democracy Centre or cruising around with the NGOs and Peace Corps have had to give up their studies and go work as check-out chicks at IC Norte for a year because they ran out of money, or did a five-year degree just to end up a cabbie in Cbba or a nanny in Spain.
No matter how wrapped up in the place we may become, we do not experience the pain of being Bolivian and cannot claim to ever be one of them.
Marty, you hit the nail right on the head. What you describe is exactly the problem with foreigners that show up here and think they're taking up the plight of Bolivians as their own by mixing it up with the locals. Democracy Ctr and other NGO's make themselves feel better by slumming it for a while but in the back of their mind they know that they can always leave. I feel sorry for the children of these misguided individuals, because their "morally superior" parents subject them to life in the 3rd world which no one, including the average Bolivian, deserves to endure.
Give us all a break, Grindio. Carnaval in Santa Cruz is a party that everyone participates in, rich or poor. The only difference is the price of their booze. There's nothing religious about it just like there's nothing religious about Urkupina. Not much difference between this and the commercialism that characterizes most "religious" holidays in the States or anywhere else nowadays. The religious do their thing on their own time, not during Urkupina or Carnaval. Why not ease up on those that like to enjoy themselves? Have you ever been to Carnaval in Santa Cruz? It can be a lot of fun, as I'm sure Urkupina is. Or maybe we should sit and weep forever (or rant on blogs) about social injustice.
Thanks Anon 11:20 for redundantly repeating my point.
I made a similar point as you but by sarcasm. Our differences lie in that I met many who fast and make the pilgrimage to Urkupina for reasons specific to their catholic faith. Neither did you comprehend anything about this blog's topic. Jim introduced the cultural (non-political) aspects of Urkupina as related by Yi-Ching. Her personal account informed us of her "building friendships with Bolivians and enriching [her]self with a dance that’s more than 150 years old".
For the record, I understand carnaval can be for some a cultural debauchery-fest like Urkupina can be sans the religious undertones of some devotees to the Virgin of Urkupina. The difference lies in the socio-economic context of the participants. Many Urkupina attendees are poor thus they seek to satisfy their basic needs, which contrasts to the needs of certain Santa Cruz elites.
Do work on your reading comprehension and issue identification.
Marty and Anon 11:01,
Please don't hang out in Bolivia. People like yourselves detract from the joy Bolivians or those who are living in Bolivia experience on so many levels. Those benefits are particularly related to human values. Yi-Ching articulated some of them within her well-written narrative. That Yi-Ching, Jim and others are in Bolivia to help Bolivians only adds a greater dimension to the rich and meaningful lives they experience knowing their lives and their contributions matter. But, these are human values, something beyond the scope of your frame of reference. In their context, you both would probably be miserable because of your personal hierarchy of values.
Just remember this: wherever in the world you find yourselves, there you are.
It must be pathetic to be you. Neither of you will likely ever understand the value of what Yi-Ching wrote herein: "what we do is work on our dancing but also on building harmonious relationships and keeping an eye out for each other".
Ok, Grindio. Now I (and Marty) shouldn't "hang out" in Bolivia because I don't agree with you. Don't worry, I've never have "hung out" in Bolivia. I've lived here for much longer than the Democracy Center and probably longer than you ever have. And guess what? I'm not hanging out. I also don't consider myself Bolivian. That would be a bit pretentious, although no one believes I am an expat because my Spanish is better than most natives. I work in Bolivia, unlike you and the NGO crowd who are a flash in the pan here for nothing other than a political agenda. The NGO's, the DC and others have every right to do what they do but often their motives seem disingenuous.
Since you have no idea who I am or what I do, don't be so quick to judge me. Not that it's any of your business but I experience the same joys as anyone else here which are the same joys experienced by anyone else in any other country. Bolivia is a great country full of great people. What bugs me is that those of us expats that are in the shadows, actually contributing to national development, the economy and providing meaningful jobs to Bolivians are overshadowed by other expats whose only purpose here is to meddle in local politics in the name of some sort of higher calling. For your information, not that you will care, I've employed hundreds of unskilled Bolivians at 8-10 times the minimum wage while locals (including the government) pay less than Bs. 1000. Although I could make a lot more money, I pay what I pay because minimum wage is unfair and low wages are an incentive to be underproductive and corrupt. What have you done to help Bolivia? Created any jobs here lately? Writing on this blog doesn't count. Don't judge my "personal hierarchy" because you have no idea what it consists of.
For the record, I have no problem with Yi Ching, her article, her sense of belonging to a group of people that generously accept her or anyone else who cares to appreciate and participate in local events, traditions and customs. I simply agreed with Marty because his comments, which were directed at another member of your moral superiority group, rung true with me. After you invest more than $1 million of your own money here and create over 500 well paid jobs, come back and judge me. Until then, go back to your Chomsky while you dream of turning Bolivians into socialist drones.
Yi Ching's article is very nice. Rock on, Yi Ching. Has anyone been following the events in Santa Cruz over the past 24 hours? The National Police commander and the Santa Cruz commander were attacked last night by a bunch of thugs after a meeting at the Comite Civico. There were clashes all day long at the police HQ yesterday and into the night. Why is the government leaving the police alone to defend themselves on this issue when they were just doing their jobs (albeit with some excesses)? They seemed pretty abandoned to me by the government hierarchy. This could easily have been much more serious. Is Evo's government going to actually do anything to deal with Santa Cruz? I didn't see too many oligarchs on the streets yesterday and they appeared to be in similar numbers as those that close the congress from time to time and gather in Plaza Murillo to support Evo.
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IRONY ALERT!!!
Anon 2:5PM wrote: 'I feel sorry for the children of these misguided individuals, because their "morally superior" parents subject them to life in the 3rd world which no one, including the average Bolivian, deserves to endure.'
THEN THEY WROTE: "I've never have "hung out" in Bolivia. I've lived here for much longer than the Democracy Center..."
Note how incongruent the above statements are in their subterfuge: a pathos-laden argument, lacking in ethos, attacking NGOs, Jim and the Democracy Center indirectly.
These Republicans construct the wildest scenarios to discredit Jim (who they claim is a recent arrival compared to their anonymous selves) or all advocating for improving the quality of life of Bolivians. What a wild tale some of them spin. Too bad about their contradictions:
If no one "deserves to endure" being "subject[ed]...to life in" Bolivia, then why attack my counseling them to not subject themselves to "endure" hanging out in Bolivia.
As to the claims of employing "hundreds of unskilled Bolivians", IF IT WERE TRUE, it sounds like he employs them in sugarcane, Brazil nut gathering or one of those private ranches in the Chaco. He might be one that despicable family of de facto slave owners, the Larsens (Ronald and Dursten). See http://machetera.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/the-face-of-white-separatism-in-bolivia/
Here's how "hundreds of unskilled Bolivians" are de facto slaves exploited with debt bondage: high interest debt is created by money advanced, sustained by selling food and goods on that expensive credit to unskilled Bolivians (generally the indigenous).
"Numerous Bolivian and international human rights organizations have published reports on the existence of systems of semi-slavery on estates in the Chaco.[9] Estimates vary, but at least 600 Guaraní families live in such conditions in the departments of Santa Cruz, Chuquisaca and Tarija. These families have no land of their own and live in communities located on the estates of their masters. In the documentary “Quiero ser libre, sin dueño” (“I want to be free, without a master”), produced by the Bolivian Ombudsman’s office and the Ministry of Justice, dozens of Guaraníes give dramatic testimony to conditions on estates in Chuquisaca. Although treatment varies, interviewees testify to working for their masters over 12 hours a day for between ten cents to two dollars a day (far below what they legally should receive); sometimes workers receive no pay at all, only second-hand clothes and food. Debt slavery is common, where debts supposedly incurred by the Guaraní to their masters (sometimes from passed down from their parents) effectively negate their pay. Child labor and corporal punishment are widespread."
No wonder this dude has it in for NGOs, Jim and the Democracy Center. He who lives in Bolivia for many years yet does not regard himself as Bolivian is truly pathetic for if Bolivia is a despicable place to live as- that anon stated-then he is only in Bolivia because he is making a lot of money from exploiting “hundreds of unskilled Bolvians”.
"IF IT WERE TRUE, it sounds like he employs them in sugarcane, Brazil nut gathering or one of those private ranches in the Chaco. He might be one that despicable family of de facto slave owners..." E-G, c'mon dude. You probably are not the best one to be decrying outlandish claims. Anon says he came to Bolivia, invested his own money and paid 8-10 times minimum wage. When was the last time you were here? Those claims are hardly unbelievable. BTW, "paying 8-10 minimum wage" does not equal "de facto slave owner".
I think NGOs, Jim and the Democracy Center do a fine job. My opinion trumps the opinion of Anon 2:58PM because I employ thousands of unskilled Bolivians and I pay them hundreds of times the minimum wage in the US.
I pay that much because it costs me nothing to claim that I generated 500 jobs and paid what I claim I paid. That's the benefit of posting as another anonymous person like Anon 2:58PM.
Grindio, you're wrong on all counts. I'm not in any type of farming, mining or other rural trade. The unskilled I employ are not manual laborers and they become skilled with a lot of investment in training. I also employ a lot of professionals. None of that really matters, though, because you assume that any foreigner in Bolivia is here to exploit the downtrodden and is a slaveowner. I'm not going to try and change your opinion on this because your opinion really doesn't matter. Whether you believe it or not and I honestly don't care if you do, I have been here longer than the DC and I know I have a better handle on what's going on here than you. What you didn't respond to were my questions. Have you done anything real lately in or for Bolivia? If not, your cut and pastes and diatribes aren't worth much. I don't have it in for anyone, as you wrongly suggest. I haven't insulted anyone and that's not my intent. I do have a right to question the DC's and other left-leaning NGO's motives as they affect the country where I live and work. I've lived and worked in many different countries in addition to my own (the US) and I do my best to understand them in order to do my job and contribute to the host society. I recognize your right, often exercised here, to criticize the US mission, Bush, the Republicans or whomever you choose and my guess is that this is probably the only forum you have the guts to do it in. Incidentally, I have no affiliation, political or otherwise, with any of the above. Since I don't believe you live or work here (correct me if I'm wrong), you're comments really aren't relevant to what goes on here and I don't plan to respond to you again. I do find it unfortunate that you are so obtuse because you otherwise might be an interesting person to exchange opinions with. As for the DC and its work specifically, I disagree with its politics but that's what makes their website and publications interesting. Have a great day.
Anon 5:22
You can take my comments at their face value and find them credible or not. I really don't care and my anonymity is irrelevant. Everyone on this site is anonymous with the exception of Jim.
"Everyone on this site is anonymous with the exception of Jim"
Your lack of credibility is not limited to the irony of your inconsistent statements like 1) nobody should endure living in Bolivia yet you claim to live in Bolivia;
2) you hold yourself out as an altruistic employer of "hundreds of unskilled Bolivians" or now claiming,
3) "everyone is anonymous" whereas Professor Centellas informs us as to his identity, his blog, his politics, his teaching position and even posts his photo which you can see if you click on his name.t
Even I decided to link my photo-taken on a set with an actress-so I am not as sheltered as before from the nuts on this blog or those with apparent pathologies like yours.
My point is this: Readers should disregard your opinions attacking Jim, NGOs or the Democracy Center since you lack credibility as a source.
And El Grindio's credibility is impeccable because of a photo in a car with a girl and a few bohemian phrases in his profile?
Wow. A picture of you and an actress. I'm impressed. If you're trying to project some sort of celebrity status, how do you reconcile that with having nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon argue with another gringo on a blog about Bolivia? Damn. I said I wasn't going to respond to Grindio anymore. Oh well.
Marty "Re: Locojhon. Nice sentiment, but I personally don't think it's possible to 'become' a Bolivian, even if someone goes to live there for 50 years..."
So, Tito Asbun, Goni, Sanches Berzain, etc. will never be "American" even if they were to spend the rest of their lives in the EE.UU? Nor my great-grandmother, who immigrated from Luxemburg and lived in the USA for 52 years, was never really and American? You are saying that one has to be born in Bolivia to be a real Bolivian? And conversely, if a child is born of Bolivian parents in Arlington, VA that person can never become a Bolivian?
Interesting point, Anon 6:53. What's a real Bolivian anyway? Guaranis and Aymaras don't have much in common, except for being poor (most cases). Then there are the Euro descendant whites, the mestizos, the Japanese, the Taiwanese, Syrians and other middle easterners. There are Russians, too, along with the occasional Brit or American (what's an American?). Who's really Bolivian?
You are saying that one has to be born in Bolivia to be a real Bolivian?
Ironically, that's pretty much what the proposed CPE says. You have to be born Bolivian to hold any elected office. (A lot of folks in California might like to have a similar law).
To act as a public servant in any capacity, you will be required to be a Bolvian citizen.
It's getting mushy out there.
Wow. A picture of you and an actress. I'm impressed.
And he's several shades lighter than I am in the darkest days of winter. No surprise.
Damned oligarquista.
"If you're trying to project some sort of celebrity status, how do you reconcile that with having nothing better to do on a Saturday afternoon argue with another gringo on a blog about Bolivia?"
"On a Saturday afternoon", I discuss issues with "gringo[s] on a blog about Bolivia because its quick and breaks up my day. But, mainly for the same reason my sibling gave when asked, "Why did you locate your business in Bolivia; you must be making a lot of money." My sibling's response: "I do it because I'm Bolivian."
As for the issue of communicating a sense of self as celebrity by way of my photo: no thank you. That would require degrading and resizing the image of myself in a closeup, a two-shot on a soundstage or movie set, and/or on the red carpet at an awards presentation sufficiently to protect my identity and that of any "hottie" at my side.
"I expect Morales to provide another shining example of his vast understanding in world affairs and interest in human rights by denouncing Georgia for daring to defend itself against being swallowed up by Russia.
;-)
The Croats are Morales' Jews
Beni is Morales' Katrina"
A 12 Y.O. RESPONDS:
http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XI2Chc6uQ
on the red carpet at an awards presentation sufficiently to protect my identity and that of any "hottie" at my side.
A combination of lithium and thorazine may alleviate this condition.
1:32 AM
"A combination of lithium and thorazine may alleviate this condition."
Maybe a joint may be the answer. At least you don't have to leave the farm :)
Of course Bolivia has 50% of the world's lithium. The USA has 20%.
Of course the USA would try to exploit Bolivia rather than extract it's own resources.
"...to protect my identity and that of any "hottie" at my side."
Frank_ibc: "A combination of lithium and thorazine may alleviate this condition."
Obviously, but the issue is will you rabid, right-wingers take them? (Your comments show most of you are off your meds again.) I know...putting them in your Budweisers ... err ... Huaris.
"With our progress we have destroyed our only weapon against tedium: that rare weakness we call imagination." – Oriana Fallaci
PODEMOS - R.I.P.
Nobody is going to miss them.
LULZ
Grindio is gettin his a$$ handed to him by the anon expat. I like
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It's too late for anyone to read this now, and I stand by my argument made earlier, but I also think that this is a terrific article written with a lot of heart.
Anon 6:53PM, Melding into the US and into Bolivia are two different things. Anyone can become an Estadounidense after only a short period of time – obviously your great-grandmother became one after 52 years. But in Latin America there is more of a sense of who is from Latin America and who is not, and I suspect some of the things I said earlier contribute to this semi-exclusion. Is there a U.S. equivalent for the Latin American word ‘gringo’, with all of its outsider connotations? Is it fair that Asians who live years in Latin America or even their second-generation kids will never shake the label ‘chino’?
A child born of Bolivian parents who spends all his life (from birth) in VA is Bolivian, of course, but surely not to the same degree as someone who lives in Bolivia all his life. If you spend extended periods away from a place then I am certain that you lose some of its essence.
And this not a serious answer to anon 7:06 but nonetheless: The Ayamras and Guaraníes do have one thing in common! They fought against each other and died of thirst alongside each other in the 1930s. (Even if they were Paraguayan Guaraníes.)
Saludos
Just two thoughts on your probing comments:.
1) "But in Latin America there is more of a sense of who is from Latin America and who is not"
If one substituted the term Black or Jew for the terms "Latin America" wouldn't your proposition hold true to the same extent that it does now?
2) "Is there a U.S. equivalent for the Latin American word ‘gringo’, with all of its outsider connotations?"
Yes. In Hawaii, "haole" is the equivalent in almost all its levels, including the pejorative sense as well as the sense of being the foreign "other".
1) You're right.
2) I assume that the Hawaiian word is only used by Hawaiians, a small group of norteamericanos, it's not a trait all over the country.
Regards
You're discussing the concept of tribalism.
Hawaii is part of the US and everyone there uses the term haole. On the mainland of the US, at beach cities the "inlanders" are despised by those residing near the ocean just like in the mountains where I've gone skiing, the locals use the pejorative "flatlanders" to show they are not of their local tribe.
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